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Noel Borthwick

Windows 11 compatibility

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Just starting a thread here to discuss Windows 11 compatibility.
While we don't expect to have any issues with Cakewalk running on Win 11 getting your PC running it is a different story :)
You may have read about the announcements that Win 11 only supports PC's with newer processors (Intel 8 gen and higher) and that it requires TPM 2.0 hardware support. In fact many of my PC's fail the upgrade test because I don't have TPM support and my CPU (
though quite capable being an core Intel) is an earlier generation.

Here is a new blog post from Microsoft where they appear to be potentially dialing back the requirements.

I hope the requirements get relaxed because they seem a bit restrictive to only allow systems with TPM 2. I've seen some reports of soft and hard blocks for installation. Will be interesting to see how this evolves.

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Posted (edited)

https://blogs.windows.com/windows-insider/2021/06/28/update-on-windows-11-minimum-system-requirements/
 

Quote

Windows Insiders,

Today we’re releasing our first Insider build for Windows 11, and we’re looking forward to the insight that comes from you installing and using on a variety of your PCs. Last week’s introduction of Windows 11 signaled the first step on our journey to empower people with the next generation of Windows. With a new generation comes an opportunity to adapt software and hardware to keep pace with people’s computing needs today and in the future.

The intention of today’s post is to acknowledge and clarify the confusion caused by our PC Health Check tool, share more details as to why we updated the system requirements for Windows 11 and set the path for how we will learn and adjust. Below you will find changes we are making based on that feedback, including ensuring we have the ability for Windows Insiders to install Windows 11 on 7th generation processors to give us more data about performance and security, updating our PC Health check app to provide more clarity, and committing to more technical detail on the principles behind our decisions. With Windows 11, we are focused on increasing security, improving reliability, and ensuring compatibility. This is what drives our decisions.

 

Edited by abacab
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35 minutes ago, garybrun said:

I have a good computer...  but no TPM 2.. so I fail.  🙂

Same for me: first generation Ryzen.

But all is not lost. The current Windows 11 Insider Preview works on systems without the earlier stated requirement and yesterday MS posted that it will test to identify devices running on Intel 7th generation and AMD Zen 1 that may meet their principles.  
 

Also, there are tweakers already working on solutions that might bypass the TPM2 problem with software and/or TPM2 hardware module solutions.

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The real pain (I think) will be UEFI/secure boot.  A lot of people, like me, will have gone with a CSM (compatability non-UEFI) boot for Windows 10 for a variety of reasons, even though I have firmware TPM 2.0 and possibility to use UEFI.

Changing from CSM to UEFI boot is...well, let's be charitable and call it non-trivial.  OK, it's a complete pain the backside without wiping your entire OS disk.  Even the tools that claim to do it don't (I ended up having to boot to a command prompt and rebuild the partitions from scratch before I could restore from a Macrium backup - that's not fun).

And if you dual boot (Linux/Windows 10, say), then good luck 🙂

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Posted (edited)

I look at it as Microsoft's call on what will or won't be compatible since they will upgrade it to Win 11 "free".  My working career was in computers (the last 23 years as a regional LAN/WAN Network and Hardware Help Desk Manager at SSA) and the one thing that was certain was hardware and software changing.   

I have a graphics programmer friend that is in the same boat with a high end MAC; the latest MAC OS leaves his system out.

My desktop DAW system has an i7 8700K CPU and has TPM 2.0 but my Dell Inspiron 15 laptop that I sometimes use for recording has a 7th gen CPU so is out based on current Microsoft requirements.  No big deal, its 3 years old and there are many that consider 3 years as average lifespan of a laptop (many last longer but average is 3 years).  The laptop can continue with Win 10 until it dies.

Speaking of Dell, here is the current list of Dell PC's tested for Win 11.  CLICK

 

Edited by Jack Stoner
Typo

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4 hours ago, Kevin Perry said:

The real pain (I think) will be UEFI/secure boot.  A lot of people, like me, will have gone with a CSM (compatability non-UEFI) boot for Windows 10 for a variety of reasons, even though I have firmware TPM 2.0 and possibility to use UEFI.

Changing from CSM to UEFI boot is...well, let's be charitable and call it non-trivial.  OK, it's a complete pain the backside without wiping your entire OS disk.  Even the tools that claim to do it don't (I ended up having to boot to a command prompt and rebuild the partitions from scratch before I could restore from a Macrium backup - that's not fun).

And if you dual boot (Linux/Windows 10, say), then good luck 🙂

You have to use MBR2GPT.exe to do the conversion.
I spent more than half of Saturday dealing with switching to UEFI. I had 2 redundant recovery partitions created by buggy windows installs that I had to manually delete before I was able to use the MBR2GPT.EXE tool. I had to watch a bunch of YouTube tutorials before I figured out how to do that. Not for the faint of heart - I was afraid I would brick my system but it worked fine after I deleted the dead recovery partitions. Different tool to find out which one is in use and which is dead!

 If anyone needs to do this I can hunt down the videos I found that helped.
The annoying thing is after all that work I got the CPU incompatibility message. It would have been far more useful if they listed all the problems at one time rather than piecemeal.

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3 hours ago, Jack Stoner said:

I look at it as Microsoft's call on what will or won't be compatible since they will upgrade it to Win 11 "free".  My working career was in computers (the last 23 years as a regional LAN/WAN Network and Hardware Help Desk Manager at SSA) and the one thing that was certain was hardware and software changing.   

I have a graphics programmer friend that is in the same boat with a high end MAC; the latest MAC OS leaves his system out.

My desktop DAW system has an i7 8700K CPU and has TPM 2.0 but my Dell Inspiron 15 laptop that I sometimes use for recording has a 7th gen CPU so is out based on current Microsoft requirements.  No big deal, its 3 years old and there are many that consider 3 years as average lifespan of a laptop (many last longer but average is 3 years).  The laptop can continue with Win 10 until it dies.

Speaking of Dell, here is the current list of Dell PC's tested for Win 11.  CLICK

 

I think obsoleting laptops that are 4-5 years old is borderline ok. However with desktops its a different matter since many build them to be upgradeable. 
I typically spend a lot to buy a top of the line desktop just so that I can upgrade it. I expect it to last at least 7-8 years because of this. My 2015 8 core PC is still perfectly capable for what I use it for. The windows user base doesn't quite have the same disposable hardware mentality as the Mac base so its a tough sell from Microsoft.

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5 hours ago, Noel Borthwick said:

You have to use MBR2GPT.exe to do the conversion.
I spent more than half of Saturday dealing with switching to UEFI. I had 2 redundant recovery partitions created by buggy windows installs that I had to manually delete before I was able to use the MBR2GPT.EXE tool. I had to watch a bunch of YouTube tutorials before I figured out how to do that. Not for the faint of heart - I was afraid I would brick my system but it worked fine after I deleted the dead recovery partitions. Different tool to find out which one is in use and which is dead!

 If anyone needs to do this I can hunt down the videos I found that helped.
The annoying thing is after all that work I got the CPU incompatibility message. It would have been far more useful if they listed all the problems at one time rather than piecemeal.

I used Aomei Partition Assistant to transform mbr disks to gpt. Its painless and you don’t lose data. But its paying.

so now all i need is this blasted tmp2 thingy. Fingers crossed MS will back down. I can’t find one for my MB at all (in France).

cheers,

J

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21 hours ago, Noel Borthwick said:

You have to use MBR2GPT.exe to do the conversion.
I spent more than half of Saturday dealing with switching to UEFI. I had 2 redundant recovery partitions created by buggy windows installs that I had to manually delete before I was able to use the MBR2GPT.EXE tool. I had to watch a bunch of YouTube tutorials before I figured out how to do that. Not for the faint of heart - I was afraid I would brick my system but it worked fine after I deleted the dead recovery partitions. Different tool to find out which one is in use and which is dead!

 If anyone needs to do this I can hunt down the videos I found that helped.
The annoying thing is after all that work I got the CPU incompatibility message. It would have been far more useful if they listed all the problems at one time rather than piecemeal.

Now try doing that with no recovery partition...  In theory, it's doable but reality is a different matter!

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$5k for a new computer is a small price to pay for a center-justified taskbar.

Ever notice Microsoft's surprisingly consistent pattern of alternating good and bad versions? Windows 2 was useless, Windows 3 changed the world. Win 95 made half your applications stop working, Win 98 addressed those problems. Windows ME, 'nuff said. XP was great, Vista sucked. Win 7 was troublesome but ultimately recognized as forward progress, but Win 8 was widely ridiculed for trying to make desktop displays look and act like tablets. Then Win 10 redeemed the brand again. Let's hope Win 12 swoops in to save the day.

 

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35 minutes ago, Noel Borthwick said:

Interestingly my desktop has got exactly the same 6gen i7 6700 as in the article but it is not clear for me (from a quick read) whether it allows for Win11 or not. From what I get it could be possible but the security might be compromised. 🤔

Not that I'm losing any sleep because of Win11. I'm already disappointed enough with Win10 after switching from Win7 and Win11 doesn't appear to be any better. I upgraded solely for compatibility reasons and, well a bit more cpu power but really all the rest, like time regularly wasted on windows upgrades and fixing broken software, peace of mind etc. is my loss. And now they want me to spend more money... I don't think so.

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Just put dual boot on my PC to start experimenting with Win 11. 

Haven't had any issues so far, but I think the first release was mostly the eyecandy and not a lot of the back end 'optimization'.

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I'll be curious to hear about peoples' experience running Win11 in a VM. As a software developer, I'll have no choice but to start experimenting soon, but there's no way it's going near my production machines unless safely tucked away within a VM.

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2 year old hp Pavilion gaming laptop windows 10. Part of the Windows Insider group, laptop updated automatically to Windows 11,  no problems with Cakewalk, no problems with anything and a first for Windows, it actually loads and runs programs faster!

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On 6/30/2021 at 12:15 AM, Noel Borthwick said:

I think obsoleting laptops that are 4-5 years old is borderline ok. However with desktops its a different matter since many build them to be upgradeable. 
I typically spend a lot to buy a top of the line desktop just so that I can upgrade it. I expect it to last at least 7-8 years because of this. My 2015 8 core PC is still perfectly capable for what I use it for. The windows user base doesn't quite have the same disposable hardware mentality as the Mac base so its a tough sell from Microsoft.

You think obsoleting laptops that are 4-5 years old is OK? Why?  Lets make all electrical goods obsolete after 5 years, that will go a long way to helping the environment, NOT.

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2 hours ago, Chris Marsh said:

You think obsoleting laptops that are 4-5 years old is OK? Why?  Lets make all electrical goods obsolete after 5 years, that will go a long way to helping the environment, NOT.

Obsoleting is a big word. That would mean any machine that doesn't upgrade to Win 11 suddenly will not work anymore.

The current plan would be to stop updating Win 10 in 2025, so I would guess it will still be supported by Software developers until then. (and it will probably be extended 2-5 years if the Win11 adaption rate is low).

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