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Jim Hurley

What are 'apps'?

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This is a posting to help others who may have the same issue: I built a new computer recently, and one thing was not working - the microphone.

I almost never use it, so it wasn't a top priority, but nevertheless, I wanted it to work.

If I tried to set it up using the microphone set up in the sound control panel, it said the Wizard could not start due to a device error. If I tried to record it, the DAW said a setting was wrong. But I could stream it to output using the 'listen' option, so I knew the hardware and wiring were working.

Off and on these last few months, I tried different settings, driver modes, etc. Finally, today I decided to work on it exclusively.

I don't believe what the problem was - fundamentally it was a language issue.

It was a permissions issue, not a device setting.

On the Microphone permissions there are two places that have to be enabled.

The first is that you have to have "Allow access to the microphone on this device" set.

It was set and I thought that was enough.

But below that is 'Allow apps to access you microphone'. And then there are some specific example apps like Cortana, Desktop App Web Viewer, etc.

That was not set, because I didn't want any'apps' to have access to the microphone.

This is the language issue - Microsoft means 'application program' here, not 'app'.

There are just so many things wrong here on so many levels that could have made things simpler - an error message saying you don't have permission is a lot different than saying a setting or parameter is wrong.

But I feel that these days in Windows there are so many different types of applications - 'real' programs that you buy and install, .NET applications that are often fancy GUI packages, and then the 'app' which is a toy that runs in a sandbox.

To just call all these 'app' is not fair.

Programs-are-not-apps.png

Edited by Jim Hurley

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Hi Jim!

This is probably a question you should put in the Cakewalk by Bandlab Forum under Cakewalk Products. More expertise on this subject will be available there.

Sorry I couldn't help you

Good luck!

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Here's what you're missing Jim.  All programs are applications or, using an abbreviation, apps.  Cortana, Edge, etc. are all programs that need to be installed, just like Word, Excel or Cakewalk.  They just get installed during the larger installation of Windows.  The famous "Hello World!" program is still an app, regardless of the language it was written in.

All of that said, there has definitely been some usage (mostly among non-programmer types) where an app is considered to be a program on your phone (or other mobile device).  To make things even more confusing, there's a camp that thinks an app is just a program that does one thing while an application is meant to do many things.

The bottom line is that saying "app" sounds sexier then saying "application," however they really are the same.

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57 minutes ago, craigb said:

 All programs are applications or, using an abbreviation, apps. 

I don't think this is right and is actually the cause of the confusion. A program is a set of instructions, the result of which is an application. Said another way, an application (app) is the culmination of many programs. Programs are written. Applications are used. 

I think calling applications programs is mostly a result of Windows calling the folders the Program File folders. The executable for an application is found in these folders, so many people just call applications programs.  

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When I developed programs from the late 60's through turn of the century, I never called what I made an 'app', nor do I recall anyone using that term.
I only recall it coming into usage when the iPhone came out and no one ever said they were installing a 'program' on their iPhone.

The Microphone permissions page says that 'Denying access only blocks apps from accessing your microphone. It does not block Windows.'
And yet, the microphone setup wizard is definitely a part of Windows that gets blocked. I wouldn't call that feature an App or a Program - it is part of Windows configuration and control panel.

I adopted Windows 10 when it first came out on my laptop and previous system. I used a Scarlett Solo interface for my mic on the laptop and a Focusrite Saffire Pro via Firewire on the desktop.
I never recall having any such issue setting them up. Perhaps that is because having an external interface changes the nature of the microphone. I would not see that as having anything to do with blocking access to a microphone for security issues, though.

I used Classic Shell and now Open-Shell and they both have an 'Apps' flyout menu that only show the tiled formerly-called-Metro things there. The 'Programs and Features' control panel does not list any apps.

But I guess now that Bandlab Assistant (which is an App) is needed to install Cakewalk, I guess it becomes an App now, too.

I think this is a relatively new setting for Windows and maybe a terminology issue only for older people or language purists.

Since my new motherboard supposedly has an audiophile set of components, I didn't see the need to use my old hardware, and I didn't want to buy a Firewire interface for the Saffire.

But beyond terminology, the real issue is that error messages need to be very clear if they are of any use at all. I would have been helped just as much by a message saying - "didn't work, try something different" because that is what I did.

Permissions can trigger access faults which are generally very differently fixed than software exceptions and things commonly called 'errors'. My mom might not have given me permission, but that never stopped me from doing something.

Anyway, all in fun. I posted it here because I thought it might get me into a rant. I had better stop here.
 

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It's certainly somewhat newer terminology for the Windows environment, but it makes sense to adopt in my view it as it's more descriptive of what one is referring to. 

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Sorry, my bad.  I didn't know you already had an opinion, I thought you were simply asking.  I've heard and used the abbreviation for decades...

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This is getting de-railed due to semantics issues and the main idea is being missed by my bad title.

The title is rhetorical, it isn't a real question. 

After a lot more research yesterday and today, it appears that after the April 2018 Windows update, some of the security settings got reset including the webcam and microphone.

A lot of people have found this to be a problem, not just me. 

And the Windows Audio troubleshooter and any error messages one encounters are of no use at all in fixing the improper settings. It is just one of those things you have to know, or hope you got set properly at the start.

What seems to be the new deal since then - being phrased in my own words - is this:

Windows has two levels of security (or privacy may be a better word)  for a microphone device. 

The first is to allow or not allow it to exist on the machine it is attached.  This is somewhat like disabling it in Device Manager.

If it is enabled, it will appear in the hardware and it can get drivers installed, etc. But it can't be utilized without the next level.

The second level is to allow processes to be able to use the device. The settings say for this level state that Windows is always able to use it without setting this, but that is simply untrue and misleading for troubleshooting. You can use it without level 2 if you set it up via 'listening' but that  seems to be a security hole or flaw.

As I mentioned at the start of this thread, this was on my to-do list of bugs to track down for about the last 4 months. When I finally discovered the solution, it was rather startling to me how Microsoft set this up and the way they phrased the settings and hid it in Privacy Settings.

For a time I it made me upset, as one often gets when troubleshooting, so I posted down here to get it out of my system, but I think it has backfired and I apologize for that.

At any rate, my purpose is to help others who might have fallen down the same rabbit hole I did.

If you are like me, when you install Windows you make a local account, turn off all the Windows monitoring stuff like Cortana, and let it do as little as possible for you. In so doing, you might set these things in a way that you don't intend unless you know the language.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Apps are short for applications because applications is too big of a word for today's lazy abbreviated generation.

Consequently everything is an app today as marketing fears being out of step.

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So the next Generations will just say hey did you see the latest          "A"         it is so cool 😎

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2 hours ago, InstrEd said:

So the next Generations will just say TEXT hey did you see the latest          "A"         it is so cool 😎

Corrected.

It's doubtful the next generation will remember how to talk to each other without the aid of a handheld device. 😏

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Okay you got me. Probably the next generation will be able to mind meld like Spock 🖖😆 

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"  And the Windows Audio troubleshooter and any error messages one encounters are of no use at all in fixing the improper settings. It is just one of those things you have to know, or hope you got set properly at the start.

What seems to be the new deal since then - being phrased in my own words - is this:

Windows has two levels of security (or privacy may be a better word)  for a microphone device. 

The first is to allow or not allow it to exist on the machine it is attached.  This is somewhat like disabling it in Device Manager.

If it is enabled, it will appear in the hardware and it can get drivers installed, etc. But it can't be utilized without the next level.

The second level is to allow processes to be able to use the device. The settings say for this level state that Windows is always able to use it without setting this, but that is simply untrue and misleading for troubleshooting. You can use it without level 2 if you set it up via 'listening' but that  seems to be a security hole or flaw. "

I'm still a die hard Win 7 fan boy specifically because of this crap.   Thank you very much for a clean and succinct explanation. I can't stand Windows 8 that I have on one Laptop..  I bought my daughter a used Dell Inspiron POS that has Win 10 installed on it and I was able to use it for about 2 hrs before a windows update and a very stupid software switch to allow both battery charging  and WIFI enabling basically turning it into a brick .  Bought a new battery - then got another win 10 update that bricked it again. I threw it in the garbage. I'll never buy a DELL again.... and I'll try as hard as possible to never update to Win 10. Here's a hint: don't release garbage operating systems and hope the general public will do your quality checking - because basically they don't have any other options.

Edited by RBH

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yup, "apps" is just an abbreviation of "applications" which is the same as "programs" (or "progs")

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Windows 10 works fine for me.

As Jim has mentioned, I have turned off as much as I can, like Cortana and stuff and my two laptops and single desktop are running fine.

Ransomware Protection was a bit of a pain at first and it took me ages to suss out how to add the Libre Office to the list of "apps." Basically, any program that wants to write to the C:\Users folder needs to be added to that list.

Edited by synkrotron

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Everybody loves to make up a new way of saying/naming things.

Hell, I've worked in companies where 3 people would call the same function (it's name clearly labeled on the screen) 3 different things. NOTE: None of which were the actual name.

 

 

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There are a lot of things I like about Windows 10, But the Microsoft store and it's apps are not one of them.

I just use it like I used Windows 7 - just the desktop, using Open-Shell to get back the old Start menu.

The kernel is much more responsive.

But the update process seems to be skyrocketing out of control, just about every recent update was a catastrophe for some people.

 

 

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11 hours ago, Bapu said:

Everybody loves to make up a new way of saying/naming things.

Hell, I've worked in companies where 3 people would call the same function (it's name clearly labeled on the screen) 3 different things. NOTE: None of which were the actual name.

 

 

i currently work at a company like this

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