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cclarry

A Fine Example of IK Stupidity

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I already own Total Studio Max 2, which includes ST3 Max.
I already own SampleTank 4
I already own ALL the additional products that are included in SampleTank 4 Max
(and then some)

My cost to upgrade to ST4 Max is $149? (And THAT PRICE is "on Sale"?)

By the SAME token I already own Amplitube 4 Max, Amplitube 5 SE, and ALL the "add-ons" except Satriani,
and THAT is besides owning Total Studio Max, which includes ANOTHER Amplitube 4 Max,
and my cost to update to Amplitube 5 Max is is $299?

How can IK NOT see the SHEER AND UTTER STUPIDITY of their business model?
It's mind numbing!
 

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I was upgrading for Amplitub4 Max to 5 Max and I thought the same thing. I had my buddy go in with me, and I ended up getting a 2nd AXE I/O and software using my Jam points, and ended up being the same $299 - so I subsidized the upgrade. 

Then, I saw the Dimebag collection and bought it like a moron ...already comes with 5 Max. They refunded my money on that.

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I think that along with Steinberg, IK is one of the worst. They charge you for downloading the sound files you already bought! This is they give you 6 month to download the soundpacks, if you have to download it after those 6 months you must purchase a download pack in order to be able to download it again. The only thing they get with those practices is to discourage anyone from purchasing they products. Aaaand you have that stupid installer that install all of the plugins they sell even if you purchase only one of them...

I have Amplitube, Sampletank and T-Racks and for sure I would buy more products from them cause I really like them, but I am not going to support a company with those stupid practices that only looks for getting money from their customers at all costs.

PD: I hate steinberg for their e-License thing and because they charge you and update fee for x.5 versions updates that corrects their own bugs. I really don't understand a company that charges you for correcting their mistakes. Is there any other software company that charge you an update rate for going from x.0 to x.5 version? ridiculous. This is why I move from Cubase to Reaper.

Edited by Patricio Campos
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Right.  When you bought a "packaged product" you ALWAYS had the disks for backup, should you
need them.  So basically they have eliminated packaging costs, disk costs, and shipping costs, in 
Favor of CHARGING YOU EVEN MORE to get what you ALREADY paid for!

 

Edited by cclarry
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I paid for Total Studio Max 1, and upgrade to 2, both when 2 was released, as it was the cheaper path for me to get it. They allowed me to use maximum Jampoints on these.

Support from IK has been really helpful to do it. I didn’t had to worry after that to get individual products.

I agree that their download policy is really bad.

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1 hour ago, cclarry said:

Right.  When you bought a "packaged product" you ALWAYS had the disks for backup, should you
need them.  So basically they have eliminated packaging costs, disk costs, and shipping costs, in 
Favor of CHARGING YOU EVEN MORE to get what you ALREADY paid for!

 

Or you could save all the downloads....

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11 minutes ago, bdickens said:

Or you could save all the downloads....

I do this anyways, and always, but that's really not the point here...
The point is that they are saving TONS of money, and STILL charging you
for what you already purchased.  Which they LOVE to do anyways, so it's
really no surprise!  They are undisputed LEADER of "Screw the existing Customer",
and Waves is working hard at meeting the challenge

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I believe many reason of such terrible approach to customer raises from lack of proper and strong feedback.

They are not many companies over whole world that have built-in self improvement in their gens. And trying to do state of with art everything they do. Usually they are focusing on what they are trying to deliver, underestimating the rest.

It is in fact hardly seen in big companies at all as they have many departments, people, procedures, passive approach to feedback (waiting for complains, counting them and reacting to counters in they development).

Of course it looks like logical approach at first glance, complex product, big company lots of work,so  you must chose what do do first...

But they often miss what should be really important as user experience is more than just putting something to input and getting great output. I have some plugins that I am using more not because they are the best from my collection but providing the best experience...

They can hear  several guys like us complaining but they read enthusiastic reviews how good it is, where more likely  nobody bold things like terrible installers blindly and stupidly trashing disk with all possible versions everywhere (like McDSP and many others), like providing poor support for download (IK requires payment for libs after some time, but JST is permanently cutting off download after year, you bought so bye), like reasonable upgrade paths for customers who invested already lots of money, or those who are promising fake loyalty coupons (which are worthless as not working during deals where any person gets the same price and lower than catalog price - voucher) etc...

What I am trying to say here is if we would have a way to convince them such things are more important, if for instance review authors also could take such things into accounts when giving a rating, it would be game changer. We are not strong enough to change it just with some random complains....

For instance, reviewer probably think, install you are using once and done so not so important to mention about it. But it only means lack of understanding whole process, like wasting time to clean manually, lack of control over our own environment and  repeating with every next update.

Also upgrade paths... How many reviews did you read where there were compared cost of products and also upgrade paths?

 

 

 

 

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It's been said here already that you need to treat IK's products as singletons: don't collect them for upgrades, don't expect special discounts because of them. This is especially true when you consider that:

- their occasional freebies already qualify you for their typical crossgrade offer 

- they run a lot of sales which are focused mainly on customers that are new to their different product lines

- there's no shortage of cheap IK plugins on the second-hand market, despite the license transfer fees

- they generate a lot of marketing hype, which makes some (especially new) buyers disregard alternatives that might offer equal or better quality/value

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15 minutes ago, Piotr said:

I believe many reason of such terrible approach to customer raises from lack of proper and strong feedback.

Oh, they are well aware and know, they simply don't care. We've been yelling at them for years about this stuff. They have a terrible reputation all over most internet communities but they continue to sell well because they focus mostly on marketing. The products themselves, some are okay but nothing that can't be replaced. On top of that, they are insulting. Nothing is ever their fault or the products fault, it's always something the user did and they deflect with "well no one else has this problem" rather than actually trying to help fix it. They are one of my very few blacklisted companies. 

Edited by Batwaffel
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47 minutes ago, Batwaffel said:

Oh, they are well aware and know, they simply don't care. We've been yelling at them for years about this stuff. They have a terrible reputation all over most internet communities but they continue to sell well because they focus mostly on marketing. The products themselves, some are okay but nothing that can't be replaced. On top of that, they are insulting. Nothing is ever their fault or the products fault, it's always something the user did and they deflect with "well no one else has this problem" rather than actually trying to help fix it. They are one of my very few blacklisted companies. 

Yeah, I think they are well aware of complaints about their sales practices. The various forums are full of complaints about them. They just don’t care.

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I've found that the best way to avoid becoming annoyed with IK is to not buy their products.

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I've never had any problem with them at all.  Their business model is easy to see.  Don't buy their products when they come out.  Wait for a MAX bundle or, even better, a new edition of Total Studio.  

They have released a ton of FX I want irecently, but there is no question that there will be a T-RackS 6 and I will save by waiting.  So I wait.  If some of you want to enjoy the products immediately, then it's your choice, and, after all these years, you pay that premium with your eyes open.

If there's anybody in the world who knows about when and how music software sales work, it should be the people on this particular forum.  We know what happens with IK on Black Friday. 

95% of other developers don't allow resales.  IK does.  Although there is a fee, it is super easy to do. 

How many other developers offer something like JamPoints?  They even improve the formula for awarding JamPoints to their best customers.
They often give you JamPoints for stuff you get free in some promotions.

They often add extras after you buy something, like patches for Syntronik, or producer presets for T-RackS.

How many developers have somebody like @Peter - IK Multimedia who drop by forums like this one to answer questions?

I have liked pretty much everything I've bought from them and use it a lot.  I'm grateful for that. It's true that I don't  use SampleTank much anymore,  but there was a time when it was very important to me. 

What makes me upset is when I do a pre-buy on a $200 library based on my trust in a developer--and then it turns out to be full of bugs and something I'll never use. I'm thinking of a piece of software right now that every buyer knows is crap but they pull their punches because the developer is so respected.  Even I do.  But that's the kind of thing that makes me stop doing business with a developer.    I have had so many worse experiences with developers than with IK. 

The download policy is obnoxious, I admit.  I can't defend that, but it isn't an issue for me personally because I keep copies and backups of all my rar files.  

Just my two cents.

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47 minutes ago, Reid Rosefelt said:

How many other developers offer something like JamPoints?

OTOH Native Instruments.

Also Useless.

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1 hour ago, Reid Rosefelt said:

I've never had any problem with them at all.  Their business model is easy to see.  Don't buy their products when they come out.  Wait for a MAX bundle or, even better, a new edition of Total Studio. 

Then why Total Studio MAX has been on sale for almost two years, even costing less than Total Studio Deluxe?

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5 minutes ago, Bruno de Souza Lino said:

Then why Total Studio MAX has been on sale for almost two years, even costing less than Total Studio Deluxe?

Italian Math what else can it be 😜

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Just now, InstrEd said:

Italian Math what else can it be 😜

I even emailed them asking about it, wondering if it was some website error or something. They said it was on sale and there was nothing wrong with the price I saw.

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