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Problems with Cakewalk

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The issue with clips is clearly from not understanding the difference in how Cakewalk and Ableton are handling/organizing midi events in tracks. I remember Cakewalk since the times when there were dots inside the measures where we have clips pane today, just black dots. Then Cakewalk started to organize the already present events in tracks into clips - not the other way around - so there had to be some rules applied in order to make it work i.e. if there is at least one measure gap between newly added notes then they will get enclosed into separate, newly created clips, and if the gap is smaller then the added note will get enclosed automatically into the nearest clip... and so on. Ableton been established long long after there was already many changes in Cakewalk, and started up with creating a clip (region?... although that term is totally misinterpreted to me) prior to entering any events hence the difference in overall 'philosophy' :)  

Edited by chris.r
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The point where he was talking about the synth not responding to the envelope curve smoothly seems to be the only legit criticism he had imo. It almost sounded like there wasn't enough resolution or points on the envelope curve even though it looked like there were. I may be getting my DAWs mixed up but I seem to recall a setting for that.

In regard to the rest. If milliseconds of your workflow time are that valuable to you, maybe taking hours creating, editing, and uploading a 9 minute video isn't quite the best usage of your time? 🤪

 

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1 hour ago, Shane_B. said:

In regard to the rest. If milliseconds of your workflow time are that valuable to you, maybe taking hours creating, editing, and uploading a 9 minute video isn't quite the best usage of your time? 🤪

 

But I always have time to point out other things'/people's faults!   Seems to be my appointed job in this life!

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44 minutes ago, balinas said:

But I always have time to point out other things'/people's faults!   Seems to be my appointed job in this life!

It's human nature. They were all valid points about CbB, but what I was pointing out is, all but 1 were not show stoppers and could easily be worked with and around. But I sure do understand the desire to have it work more efficiently. 👍

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Yep, while appreciating lots of work done by devs since Bandlab acquired Sonar the true is there are still plenty of drops about workflow in CbB. Sometimes very ancient things or even thing which could be considered like very old but still existing bugs.

Like for instance if playing loop trying to change its range there is a noticeable and annoying break in playing.

For comparison such thing can be flawlessly done even in build-in looper in Amplitube4...

Pain of using automation can be felt when trying to select a feature to automate with plugin which has tens of params which can be automated... Displaying longer than screen high list of params is things which discourage to use it at once...

Also plenty of not finished things like pretty dumb quantization lacking many useful possibilities. 

There is very long list things to improve to let be CbB the best DAW (I don't consider only free but all DAWs as there is huge potential with many great things already there).

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CbB is a great DAW.

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17 minutes ago, Bapu said:

CbB is a great DAW.

Why yes it is my fellow Ed with less hair

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If the issues with clips in Cakewalk are making someone scratch his head then, Lo and behold, here comes the new arranger track overlap threshold rules :D that frankly apply only when dragging, but for some reason not when cut/copy/paste and the results are far from easy to predict.

I was playing a bit with it and unfortunately I'm getting more and more discouraged for the moment, it seems that something that should be kept as simple as possible turns out to be overly complicated and inefficient, a loss and loss, I don't know maybe I missed some more detailed info about it while that feature was being introduced but so far I see more disaster getting from using it rather than benefits, which is sad because once again Cakewalk is bringing something to the table, a noble idea, but in the end it may become another missed opportunity (hopefully not and I'm just momentarily too dumb for it).

And I can see how others in future may take upon the idea and turn it into a properly implemented feature, and so the story goes on, Cakewalk is the first to introducing something new and exciting but it's the others who make a sensible use of it.

Edited by chris.r

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Suggest that the producer of this video change the title. "Cakewalk Needs  All DAWs need to be improved: Part 1 - Suggestions for Cakewalk".

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As Ed mentioned, people should use whatever suits them best. Personally, only seeing the midi of the selected clip (instead of for the whole track) would really annoy me. Then again, that may be because Cakewalk was my first DAW.

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I like the reply on the you tube site that tells the  person displaying the video, to kindly step off 😁

"Cakewalk is a Great DAW to work with. If you want something that does everything you desire, then shell out the hundreds of dollars like everyone else that pay for their DAW of choice. If you want a free DAW that is great and compares to some of the DAWS that folks are paying for, then enjoy Cakewalk and stop crying about what it doesn't have; If's free for goodness sake.  Wait until you loose your freebie status and the company starts making you pay for it, then you'll have a right to complain about what is missing from it."

Whooo Hooo  Tell him again !!!

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So does it feel like this guy is telling you your baby is ugly? 🙂 

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4 hours ago, Bapu said:

So does it feel like this guy is telling you your baby is ugly? 🙂 

Yes,

 CbB is my baby

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I'm sorry, but I switched to Ableton a couple of months ago. Somehow I never got in the workflow of CbB, I had all sorts of MIDI issues and I guess I'm not smart enough to figure out the routing I wanted to do.

Still no hate though. It was a nice re-introduction into current DAW's as I left the scene ages ago when we were still fiddling around with Trackers in DOS.

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11 hours ago, chris.r said:

here comes the new arranger track overlap threshold rules :D that frankly apply only when dragging, but for some reason not when cut/copy/paste and the results are far from easy to predict.

From the looks of things, they're still hammering this out, the latest build addresses an issue about cutting/copying and threshold rules. So far I've only used the AT as fancy markers to show me where my song sections are, so I don't have a great insight into it.

One of the things that AdK didn't like, the nearly imperceptible clip outlines in Piano Roll, is also addressed in this release.

11 hours ago, abacab said:

Suggest that the producer of this video change the title. "Cakewalk Needs  All DAWs need to be improved: Part 1 - Suggestions for Cakewalk".

Did you notice that his opening title card says "Cakewalk: Things That Need To Be Improved?" He's put out 16 videos demonstrating production techniques for various electronic/dance genres in Cakewalk over the past year, so he comes off to me as kinda the opposite of a hater. Takes the viewer from blank project to mostly finished piece, Bob Ross style. He may not consider Cakewalk to be "the best free DAW," but he doesn't say any of the others is, and from skimming the videos, well, he sure does seem to prefer using it, even if he doesn't regard it as "the best."🙄

His music is good examples of some of those genres if you like that sort of thing (I do) and his Cakewalk technique is pretty well-honed (if you watch his other videos, you'll get insight into why anything that slows his flow might bother him). If the program is to get criticism, at least it should come from someone like this who's spent a lot of time with it rather than those ding-dongs who get all bent when they find out that there's a learning curve. He's paid enough Cakewalk dues to be able to complain a bit, IMO.

Edited by Starship Krupa
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Speaking as a total amateur who makes music (if you can call it that)  just  for fun all I can say is I think CbB is the best free software I have ever used.  It's *%$&@#!  fantasic!!!

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Don't forget that before BandLab acquired it from Gibson a few years ago, Sonar Producer by Cakewalk (the full program) was about $499 for the first time buyer with version upgrades around the $179 mark.

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1 hour ago, Starship Krupa said:

From the looks of things, they're still hammering this out, the latest build addresses an issue about cutting/copying and threshold rules. So far I've only used the AT as fancy markers to show me where my song sections are, so I don't have a great insight into it.

Indeed they do, so here's the hope. For me so far, after trying it at it's current state, the results are far too hard to predict. Perhaps the worst thing is that the most elementary things - the MIDI notes - are altered. The bakers took the overlap threshold approach which naturally leads to a few notes alteration here and there, instead of some less destructive reallocation of the events with the section being moved/edited. If I'm working on my own performance then it's, well, fine but if someone is paying for taking on his performance and for example rearrange and make ready to print, that's the tool to avoid for me then. You wouldn't want a single note being changed.

1 hour ago, Starship Krupa said:

He's put out 16 videos demonstrating production techniques for various electronic/dance genres in Cakewalk over the past year, so he comes off to me as kinda the opposite of a hater. Takes the viewer from blank project to mostly finished piece, Bob Ross style. He may not consider Cakewalk to be "the best free DAW," but he doesn't say any of the others is, and from skimming the videos, well, he sure does seem to prefer using it, even if he doesn't regard it as "the best."🙄

(...) If the program is to get criticism, at least it should come from someone like this who's spent a lot of time with it rather than those ding-dongs who get all bent when they find out that there's a learning curve. He's paid enough Cakewalk dues to be able to complain a bit, IMO.

Absolutely! Very well spotted, glad you brought it up.

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