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Nuno.P

Trouble sending Midi to VST3 plugins. With VST2 it Works

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Hi, 

While using Bias FX2 with cakewalk i was trying to send midi information to the plugin. It works well on Bias Standalone.

Made all the correct configurations but it didn´t work. After a while i tried it with the VST2 version of Bias and it worked well. Went back to VST3 version and nothing again.

So my doubt was if it was a cakewalk or a Bias problem. 

So i also tried with TH3 VST3 and it didn´t worked. So i guess is a cakewalk problem.

Anyone of you was able to send Midi to a VST3 plugin?

 

Note:

And yes, i done the right configuration: Configure plugin as Synth. Activate midi in. Created midi track and sent midi to Bias VST3 and later to TH3.

I didn´t worked.

I even recorded midi to make sure the problem was not in my midi device. Only worked with VS2 version of Bias.

 

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44 minutes ago, Nuno.P said:

Note:

And yes, i done the right configuration: Configure plugin as Synth. Activate midi in. Created midi track and sent midi to Bias VST3 and later to TH3.

Configuring effects as synths is not necessary and has not been starting with SONAR X3.

I do not have any Bias plug-ins but just tested with TH3 Cakewalk VST3 3.4.9 on CbB 2020.11 build 99. Win10 2004.

After adding the plug-in to the FX rack,

  • I selected "Enable MIDI Input" from the VST3 drop down (this eliminates the need to config as a synth)WBoEAIf.png
  • Added a MIDI track setting
    • the input to my controller, 
    • the output to TH3 and
    • enabled Input Echo
  • In the TH3 UI I dragged BassFace '59 into the workspace
  • Right-clicked on the BASS knob on the BassFace and selected "Learn Global MIDI"
  • While moving the mod wheel on the controller, clicked OK in the "Learn MIDI" Dialog.

The BASS knob now responds to the controller mod wheel.

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What you may find is that for some reason, most VST3 sims can't accept program change commands, even if the VST2 versions can. I've tested quite a few plug-ins and had consistent results. I'm not sure why, there's no technical reason why it shouldn't be possible.

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Thanks very much for your Help scook!

You are correct in everything, but my problem persists. I now know a litle bit more about it!

Iam using a footswitch that has program changes, bank changes and two buttons with cc

With Bias VST2 patch and bank changes work. I also can assign my two CC footswitches to whatever i want.

With Bias VST3 patch and bank changes don´t work. The 2 cc Switches works well. The same happen with TH3.

 

So as i was trying to send midi pressing the patch change footswitches i though midi was not reaching the Plugin.

I don´t know if it´s a cakewalk or bias problem. But TH3 also don´t recognizes patch and bank change buttons.

But looking further, Bias VST2 changes patches and banks but don´t allows me to assign one of those buttons to any other funcion with midi learning. Only the two cc buttons work with midi learn.

So it may be a bias problem.

i don´t know if anyone can help me more in such a specific problem. I guess i will contact PositiveGride

 

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31 minutes ago, Craig Anderton said:

What you may find is that for some reason, most VST3 sims can't accept program change commands, even if the VST2 versions can. I've tested quite a few plug-ins and had consistent results. I'm not sure why, there's no technical reason why it shouldn't be possible.

Thanks Craig, That´s it.

YOu replied wen i was also writing. As i was also testing it took me a long time writing it.

Anyway i guess i should contact Bias about it and hope they can fix it!

 

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41 minutes ago, Craig Anderton said:

What you may find is that for some reason, most VST3 sims can't accept program change commands, even if the VST2 versions can. I've tested quite a few plug-ins and had consistent results. I'm not sure why, there's no technical reason why it shouldn't be possible.

One more thing. Did you tested only with cakewalk or also with another DAW software?

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10 hours ago, Craig Anderton said:

What you may find is that for some reason, most VST3 sims can't accept program change commands, even if the VST2 versions can. I've tested quite a few plug-ins and had consistent results. I'm not sure why, there's no technical reason why it shouldn't be possible.

For me, there is a good technical reason why MIDI is strange in VST3. I was digging into that when creating GM VST3, obviously with the need to process program changes on all 16 channels (and other MIDI messages). Steinberg has KILLED MIDI in VST3, there is simply no MIDI input stream there, as it is known in any other plug-in formats (including VST2).

Notes /PB are are still there. CC is reasonably "workarounded". But PC is disaster. Apart from questionable decisions, what they write in the documentation does not match what they have written in the code (SDK). So plug-in and host developers can only guess how that can/should work.

BTW my VST3 doesn't work in Cakewalk (https://github.com/AZSlow3/FluidSynthVST) It was written for REAPER (Linux and Windows) and it works there, but not in CW. While that is a kind of "my fault", that by itself tells a lot about "compatibility" in VST3 world. Not surprise REAPER shows PCs (as parameters, that in addition to duplication in "presets" the prescribed way), while Cakewalk stops showing parameters starting from the first PC :)

PS. I hope everything from Steinberg is declared obsolete one day. VST2 and ASIO was good, but both are made ill by license and "force obsolete" decision for VST2. VST3 is still in DIY/prototype, from the ideas, documentation and the code point of view (not to mention it is C++ ABI dependent, something clearly programmed to produce troubles coming from different compilers C++ ABI incompatibility). The "quality" is best demonstrated in VST3 Linux, these parts was written by someone who has never programmed on Linux before and had no time to read the documentation... Even after some problem is identified, explained and possible fix is provided, it take them ages to fix: just a week ago I have got notification that the problem/solution I reported more then a year ago is "fixed in development version".

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I forgot to mention... in CW there is "Translate program/bank changes" in the VST3 menu, which for me is off by default. I guess it should be turned on to get PC messages a chance to be delivered to VST3 plug-ins.

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Being of the "if it ain't broke don't fix it school," I avoid updates solely for the purpose of "using the latest thing." This is a good example of the wisdom of that approach. VST3's usually cause CW to crash on my computer. there is no sonic advantage to using Vst3;  Vst2 sounds just as good. When Vst2 stops working, I will switch to VST3. By then will have worked out the bugs (hopefully).

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1 hour ago, mdiemer said:

Being of the "if it ain't broke don't fix it school," I avoid updates solely for the purpose of "using the latest thing." This is a good example of the wisdom of that approach. VST3's usually cause CW to crash on my computer. there is no sonic advantage to using Vst3;  Vst2 sounds just as good. When Vst2 stops working, I will switch to VST3. By then will have worked out the bugs (hopefully).

Don't hope, by then there will be VST4 😉

Steinberg has "fixed" the license for VST3, plug-ins developers HAVE TO switch to whatever new version of VST Steinberg decide to release within fixed period of time (VST2 is still used many years after it is declared obsolete and by now 2 years since no new developers can sign VST2 license... Steinberg does not like that...)

 

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1 hour ago, azslow3 said:

Don't hope, by then there will be VST4 😉

Steinberg has "fixed" the license for VST3, plug-ins developers HAVE TO switch to whatever new version of VST Steinberg decide to release within fixed period of time (VST2 is still used many years after it is declared obsolete and by now 2 years since no new developers can sign VST2 license... Steinberg does not like that...)

 

Sounds like some competition is needed. This is very close to a monopoly situation.

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