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Will_Kaydo

I think I'm gona take a go at this again. Freeze midi to audio in place.

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17 hours ago, murat k. said:

Hi Terry,

If you freeze an Instrument Track and then you split that Instrument Track, you'll see there is an Audio Clip and a MIDI Clip separate from each other. When you freeze an Instrument track, it does not affect on CPU, it is just an Audio and a MIDI track. The only disadvantage is if you do some changes on the audio clip, you lose all the information after unfreezing the synth. But if you want to work with the Audio clip and keep the freezed Instrument Track at the same time, you can use this shortcut script. The script mutes the freezed synth and copies the audio information to an empty audio track. It works when you move the mouse cursor on the freezed instrument track's number with not selected status.

Script Shortcut: F5
Keyboard Bindings in Cakewalk: Toggle Track Mute for selected track: ALT+M

 

Freezed Instrument Track with Audio Track.ahk 162 B · 0 downloads Freezed Instrument Track with Audio Track.exe 1.06 MB · 0 downloads

Hi Murat,

I do see that but it's still an instrument track. As you pointed out, any change disrupts the midi section. As you suggested, I too just copy the audio data out to a new audio track. Extra step but not a deal breaker.

The OP was suggesting (as I read it) that the freeze would essentially change the track from instrument to audio.

Alas, I am not sure why I am invested in the topic at this point, LOL! It's certainly a feature worth investigating.

Edited by Terry Kelley

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just select MIDI, drag onto audio track and get audio clip... very simple, very efficient, very missing in Cakewalk

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22 minutes ago, chris.r said:

just select MIDI, drag onto audio track and get audio clip... very simple, very efficient, very missing in Cakewalk

Hey Chris. 

Here's what you don't understand. Speaking for myself on this, because I am a sound designer too.

I'm well aware of that - I use it a lot, as you can see in the 2nd GIF above. Here's the problem and limitations.

With today's major 3 genre's being "EDM, Hip Hop and Pop," a lot of sound design goes in it. For starters: I create my own "Glitch effect with a midi file. In one "Bar" I can sit with +50 cuts per beat with a tick snap of 2-10 (this depends on tempo.) Some of those cuts get then transpose +2 or -4 in the PRV - depending on the effect I'm after. 

Here's the frustration part: 

Imagine creating your own "Granular" effect from the midi file with certain Segments/Regions having cuts on for some reason - and you want to convert them to Audio Information with the "drag and drop." Bet you after you've dragged down>zoom in to check if all the clips are (Because bouncing to clips for some reason dont wont on midi information) You'll have some of those cuts that didn't copy with - headache. 

So this "on-the-spot" right click for the "Bounce to Audio" without, having to deal with a "Dialogue Box" how you would like to deal with - would make such a huge difference with this. Obviously a "Setting in the "Freeze to Synth" or Track tab like the one there is now - to turn "Copy with FX" On or Off.

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Will, I'm not sure I understand you correctly, my basic English might be getting in the way. What I tried to say in my short post above was that Cakewalk is missing that simplified feature: select some MIDI then just drag it onto audio track, perhaps with the ALT key or another if that's necessary, and receive an audio clip, with bouncing in the background. The two options whether you like to have the FX and tail backed-in or not are welcome too. Right now we can't do this without a bounce dialog pop-up or unless we freeze the whole track.

That's essentially the same what you are asking for, if I understand you right, with the main difference that dragging is just one click-operation, as opposed to two clicks if you're going for right-click menu. Plus with dragging you have the freedom to place it wherever you like, just as it is now when working with clips. There could be a third way to drag with the right mouseclick and once we drop the 'ghost clip', at the mouse button release, we could get the a pop-up menu with the choice for bouncing to audio but that's, again, two clicks.

Converting a MIDI clip to audio in-place to keep it in the same MIDI or Instrument track is not a good option, especially if it's a MIDI track where you can't process it further with audio effects. In my scenario you would want to:

  • drag MIDI clip onto audio track to move the MIDI clip and bounce to audio on-the-fly
  • or CTRL+drag to copy and bounce-to-audio, but keep the MIDI clip
  • and of course be able to use SHIFT to keep the relative position on the Time Bar

That's basically how working with clips is now. Then once it is dropped as audio, in the audio track you can do all your splits and edits freely, and apply effects as you like.

Edited by chris.r

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I think this thread is confusing bounce with freeze. The main purpose of freeze is to render instrument tracks to audio in-place AND completely release the resources for the instrument. It does exactly that today.

If I understand correctly some users want a shortcut to bouncing a instrument track MIDI to an audio track. This cannot be done in place to the same instrument track because it would double the audio. You can already bounce an instrument track to a different audio track from the bounce dialog. I guess I'm not understanding how this process could be sped up.

 

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4 hours ago, Noel Borthwick said:

I think this thread is confusing bounce with freeze. The main purpose of freeze is to render instrument tracks to audio in-place AND completely release the resources for the instrument. It does exactly that today.

If I understand correctly some users want a shortcut to bouncing a instrument track MIDI to an audio track. This cannot be done in place to the same instrument track because it would double the audio. You can already bounce an instrument track to a different audio track from the bounce dialog. I guess I'm not understanding how this process could be sped up.

Yes, I agree, I can only speak for myself. We have freezing and bounce through a dialog, I was asking for a third option - say I have a synth loaded and record some ideas in MIDI, have PRV open in multidock if I want to edit some notes, then I'd like to select fragment of MIDI that I like and just drag it onto an audio track to get audio clip instantly with bounce executed in the background on the fly. That way I could collect some audio clips for my project, from an opened synth, while experimenting with different presets and melodies and without closing the synth or loosing MIDI. Not having to go through a pop-up dialog every time would be an alleviation.

Typically synths have their own effects so the tail would have to be added, or make it an option.

EDIT: to sum up, the freeze is for taking the load off CPU and RAM, bounce to tracks is useful if the MIDI track (or multiple tracks) is ready for bouncing to audio, but in that particular scenario bounce the selection on-the-fly (and what-you-hear) would be best for collecting single audio blocks from synth plugins, sometimes it's just as much as hitting one note or a chord and then skipping to the next preset :).

Edited by chris.r

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51 minutes ago, chris.r said:

Will, I'm not sure I understand you correctly, my basic English might be getting in the way. 

Oh - it came out as you were giving a workaround.  All good though. 👍

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1 hour ago, Noel Borthwick said:

If I understand correctly some users want a shortcut to bouncing a instrument track MIDI to an audio track.

You can already bounce an instrument track to a different audio track from the bounce dialog.

I guess I'm not understanding how this process could be sped up.

 

Hey Noel. Thanks for taking noticed on this post. I'll try to explain this in the best way in can, with detailed information. 

1: Right now without freezing the synth, if you drag the Midi information down from the Instrument track - it creates a "Midi Track with midi information." If you freeze the track, we get the Audio Information we want, that can be dragged down then, but with extra steps (not too much of a deal breaker) to unfreeze the instrument track again. 

2: I took some time earlier and read all the comments in here and you right, the "O.I" (Original Idea) became lost in discussions with a few holes in it - guilty. 

3: Some of things what was said above made good suggestion. The aim for this is in my "3rd and last GIF" I have added to this post. "Drag midi information from "Instrument track" to an Audio "Track with Audio Information" (Wav file.)

This brought me to a simple and quickest way that will speed up things a bit. 

With the drag down function: a small dialogue box that prompts "Keep as Midi (keep as is) " or "Bounce to Track" would be a better solution right now to speed up things. This will bounce the information to an Audio Track "dry only" with the output as that of the original instrument track. 

If there's a quickest way - awesome. For now, this can be discussed around the information on the idea given here - should there be any further questions around here. 

Edited by Will_Kaydo

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1 hour ago, Noel Borthwick said:

You can already bounce an instrument track to a different audio track from the bounce dialog. I guess I'm not understanding how this process could be sped up.

As mentioned in the thread I have sped it up myself  by binding the Bounce To Track Command to CTRL-B and then assigning a macro on my Streamdeck to also hit the enter key just afterwards so it seems like one action.  It's pretty quick and one key press.

SD.jpg

Edited by Mark Morgon-Shaw
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3 minutes ago, Mark Morgon-Shaw said:

As mentioned in the I have sped it up myself  by binding the Bounce To Track Command to CTRL-B and then assigning a macro on my Streamdeck to also hit the enter key just afterwards so it seems like one action.  It's pretty quick and one key press.

SD.jpg

Nice one Mark. 

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21 minutes ago, Will_Kaydo said:

"Drag midi information from "Instrument track" to an Audio "Track with Audio Information" (Wav file.) (...) With the drag down function: a small dialogue box that prompts "Keep as Midi (keep as is) " or "Bounce to Track" would be a better solution right now to speed up things.

Drag a MIDI clip into audio track and get MIDI clip copied there is not the most expected behavior, but that's what we have for now. I agree it should get bounced to audio, don't even see any need for additional dialogue boxes, just make it 'what-you-hear' and if it's dragged from a synth track then add the tail.

Edited by chris.r
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Just now, Mark Morgon-Shaw said:

Is this close to what you want ? ( but without the need for a dedicated Streamdeck shortcut  ) 

Right on the nose! Although, we have to think about other users too. So a pop up dialogue box as suggested before, that prompts "keep the midi information"(for midi track users) or to bounce to track with audio information - like in your workflow right there, with its own individual shortcut keys. 

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22 minutes ago, chris.r said:

Drag a MIDI clip into audio track and get MIDI clip copied there is not the most expected behavior, but that's what we have for now. I agree it should get bounced to audio, don't even see any need for additional dialogue boxes, just make it 'what-you-hear' and if it's dragged from a synth track then add the tail.

😂 I hear you. I think we have to do it right. Drag down "box pops up" KEEP or BOUNCE" do your selection - done. Here's still a few midi users. Your way is fine too. 😂

Edited by Will_Kaydo
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