Jump to content
Will_Kaydo

I think I'm gona take a go at this again. Freeze midi to audio in place.

Recommended Posts

Before I start, I want to clarify this - I'm not talking about "Freeze synth." There's a difference between Freeze Synth (which for some reason Cakewalk has been adding extra watsed space to it since it was implemented in the DAW.) Although after "13 years" working in Cakewalk you get use to certain "workaround" in the DAW - although it's still irritating at times. 

Explanation

Freezing a midi file to audio in CbB, is still is an instrument track, but with audio information on it. This means, trying to take some load of your CPU with "Freezing Synth" is a dead fail, when having "4/6" instances of Kontakt open with Heavy CPU Hungry presets for "piano and strings" and 8 instances of the free version of the SSD5 for your drums.

Feature request:

"Rendering/Burn/Commit" your midi "In Place" to an instant "Audio file/Wav file" would lessen that burden on your "CPU." Meaning - That instrument track get's then converted to an "Audio Track" with audio information as if it was recorded with "Patch Points" to an Aux Track.

This feature would make a great deal of difference in your workflow. Having to export the stems, or as described above with using Patch Points, slows down the production (Worth it though.) I just think it will be an improvement to the DAW

~W~ ✌

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
54 minutes ago, Kevin Perry said:

That is exactly what Freeze does (although on a track, not a clip) - it converts the MIDI+softsynth into audio.

Sigh! Read again. 

CbB-1-1.thumb.jpg.4b8324a8ede8f1c7f70dcefb0385de63.jpg

It is still an Instrument track which means the instrument is still opened (in this case the TTS-1)  and still consumes a lot of CPU with Kontakt/SSD5 or any other Virtual instrument that consumes a lot of CPU. So that means, it's only the Midi file that has been "bounced to Audio" not track conversion to lessen that strain. 

Edited by Will_Kaydo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Will_Kaydo said:

It is still an Instrument track which means the instrument is still opened (in this case the TTS-1)  and still consumes a lot of CPU with Kontakt/SSD5 or any other Virtual instrument that consumes a lot of CPU. So that means, it's only the Midi file that has been "bounced to Audio" not track conversion to lessen that strain. 

AFAIK it does reduce the strain on the CPU when you freeze. I had to use it constantly on my old machine - Not so much now as I've upgraded.

image.thumb.png.aedd70d8b387af8b131072f2ec7411c3.png

Vs 

image.thumb.png.106fd34ffdb3ecdafa290e36bf660cd3.png

Track freeze works exactly how I'd expect it to, the FX are committed and taken off the CPU load , as is the VSTi - If you check the Synth Rack you can see it's been disengaged and the midi is replaced  with one contiguous audio file.  

If you want it in discrete clips so you don't get the wasted space you mentioned if you right click the freeze icon you can change the freeze options to " remove silence " then you will get discrete clips that more closely match your midi clips.

image.png.2bcc0412c8995b9216521603c84c4040.png

Some of what you describe sounds closer to " Bounce to Track " and I guess you could then archive the Instrument Track although I find the freeze more convenient as it's "in place " as you say. I usually freeze all my VSTi's to audio when making deliverables as then all the alt mixes are going to consist of the same audio.  

image.png.618a29bf16e97d10def3c4fdf5eb072b.png

For stems I use Folders which I've been banging on for years need sub-folders but we all have our own workflows I guess.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Will_Kaydo said:

the instrument is still opened (in this case the TTS-1)  and still consumes a lot of CPU with Kontakt/SSD5 or any other Virtual instrument that consumes a lot of CPU. So that means, it's only the Midi file that has been "bounced to Audio" not track conversion to lessen that strain. 

This is wrong.

 

Freezing disconnects the synth.

The synth is removed from memory.

Check the connection status by selecting the synth in the synth rack and open the synth settings menu or review the power button if the synth rack is floating or in the multidock.

For info about the synth settings menu and what disconnecting a synth means see http://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=Cakewalk&language=3&help=0x20234

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

scook is right, the synth is unloaded from memory and CPU, what is still missing in cakewalk imo, is a simple, direct 'bounce to audio' command (no freeze, no record audio, just a quick-bounce an audio clip from selected portion of MIDI) which is strange in such an already powerful DAW

say I have open an VST instrument and want to produce couple of audio tracks with it using few different presets and melody ideas and then just place the audio clips into project accordingly, that's were it fails to do it seamlessly, too much hoops to go through there

edit: yes I too do open audio folder in windows explorer and drag the newly created audio files into project after freezeing, but like I said, too much of a hassle for something that should be able to do easily with a single command inside DAW

Edited by chris.r
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, chris.r said:

scook is right, the synth is unloaded from memory and CPU, what is still missing in cakewalk imo, is a simple, direct 'bounce to audio' command (no freeze, no record audio, just a quick-bounce an audio clip from selected portion of MIDI) which is strange in such an already powerful DAW

say I have open an VST instrument and want to produce couple of audio tracks with it using few different presets and melody ideas and then just place the audio clips into project accordingly, that's were it fails to do it seamlessly, too much hoops to go through there

For this I would

  1. Add the synth using an instrument or audio+MIDI track pair
  2. Add MIDI
  3. Select all or part of the track(s)
  4. Bounce to Clip(s) from the Track View Tracks menu.
  5. Change preset/melody
  6. Repeat 3-5 until done
  7. Disconnect the synth
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, scook said:

For this I would

  1. Add the synth using an instrument or audio+MIDI track pair
  2. Add MIDI
  3. Select all or part of the track(s)
  4. Bounce to Clip(s) from the Track View Tracks menu.
  5. Change preset/melody
  6. Repeat 3-5 until done
  7. Disconnect the synth

I see you mean Bounce to Track(s)... yeeeeeah... fact it's there, still not perfect, I have to step through the bounce setup window every time, it's good for bouncing a few clips together though but, for single clip, freezing still probably better option plus freezing adds the tail at the end automatically and I can drag/copy the audio clip directly inside Cakewalk if I want, just need to unfreeze all over again at the end of every cycle, anyway... nitpicking :) 

Edited by chris.r

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Mark Morgon-Shaw said:

Some of what you describe sounds closer to " Bounce to Track " and I guess you could then archive the Instrument Track although I find the freeze more convenient as it's "in place " as you say. I usually freeze all my VSTi's to audio when making deliverables as then all the alt mixes are going to consist of the same audio.  

image.png.618a29bf16e97d10def3c4fdf5eb072b.png

For stems I use Folders which I've been banging on for years need sub-folders but we all have our own workflows I guess.

 

Yes. It is as bounce to clips, but the idea behind the concept, is that it would do it in place (Think of exporting something in place) without having to export the stems a folder to be dragged again. 

I do have a decent system where I barely have this problem with projects under 100 tracks, consisting of both vocals and instruments. 

• i7 4th gen Cpu 

• 16G ram

• 1TB SSD drive.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, chris.r said:

scook is right, the synth is unloaded from memory and CPU, what is still missing in cakewalk imo, is a simple, direct 'bounce to audio' command (no freeze, no record audio, just a quick-bounce an audio clip from selected portion of MIDI) which is strange in such an already powerful DAW

Finally, 1 positive reply. This is exactly what I'm describing and mean in my OP. 😂

Edited by Will_Kaydo
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, scook said:

 

  1. Add MIDI
  2. Select all or part of the track

This comes as just "Binding/grouping" those clips together. Everything mentioned so far, I do that. I'm familiar with the process. 

But imagine the ability (Like freeze) to "export/bounce/render" or whatever we want to call it "In place" permanently in "True wavform." 

I hear what you say though. 

Edited by Will_Kaydo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Will_Kaydo said:
9 hours ago, scook said:

 

  1. Add MIDI
  2. Select all or part of the track

This comes as just "Binding/grouping" those clips together. Everything mentioned so far, I do that. I'm familiar with the process. 

But imagine the ability (Like freeze) to "export/bounce/render" or whatever we want to call it "In place" permanently in "True wavform." 

I hear what you say though. 

Of course, my reply was to the post immediate above NOT the OP

I am not going to bother repeating myself WRT the OP

This was discussed at length in

 

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll try to bite it this way: to drag a clip or selection of MIDI to another (audio) track (or empty space to create a new track) with a key modifier, not sure what's left there, maybe ALT+drag, or is that already occupied? ...anyway, to *automatically* (on the fly) bounce MIDI to audio clip and put it there, plus it *should* automatically add the tail (according to the freezing setting). Yo'all know I'm a sucker for quickest workflows :). Could that be a valid feature request?

Edited by chris.r
  • Great Idea 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, scook said:

Of course, my reply was to the post immediate above NOT the OP

This was discussed at length in

 

I remember that day. 😁

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, chris.r said:

I'll try to bite it this way: to drag a clip or selection of MIDI to another (audio) track (or empty space to create a new track) with a key modifier, not sure what's left there, maybe ALT+drag, or is that already occupied? ...anyway, to *automatically* (on the fly) bounce MIDI to audio clip and put it there, plus it *should* automatically add the tail (according to the freezing setting). Yo'all know I'm a sucker for quickest workflows :). Could that be a valid feature request?

+1

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If we could convert a midi/instrument track to wave in one stroke wouldn't that require the midi/instrument track to be converted to a wave track? Seems that could be "problematic." I like the idea but question the logic needed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Terry Kelley said:

If we could convert a midi/instrument track to wave in one stroke wouldn't that require the midi/instrument track to be converted to a wave track? Seems that could be "problematic." I like the idea but question the logic needed.

If it can be done with export - why would it be a problem to do this "in place, in house, on the spot?"

Edited by Will_Kaydo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/14/2020 at 4:53 AM, chris.r said:

I'll try to bite it this way: to drag a clip or selection of MIDI to another (audio) track (or empty space to create a new track) with a key modifier, not sure what's left there, maybe ALT+drag, or is that already occupied? ...anyway, to *automatically* (on the fly) bounce MIDI to audio clip and put it there, plus it *should* automatically add the tail (according to the freezing setting). Yo'all know I'm a sucker for quickest workflows :). Could that be a valid feature request?

I see what you mean, but IMO this is nothing else than bounce to track, okay maybe there are some additional steps! But on the other hand I don't like these general commands, because then you do not know the detail settings used for bouncing! I really prefer to have full control about the bouncing setup! That's why I also prefer the export menu over the export module. Even with freeze you really don't know what is all included in the operation (or you have to go to the docu each time you use it).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm uploading the final thought to what I think, I might have meant with this. I'll try not to be long with this at the bottom. 

Edited by Will_Kaydo
  • Confused 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Will,
Converting Instrument Track to an Audio Track with one single command can be useful. To achieve this in Cakewalk for now, you need to cut the audio after freezing the synth, and copy that audio into an audio track and then delete the instrument track. But if it means too many steps to you, I wrote a script to automate that process, you can use it if you want.
It works when you move the mouse cursor on the instrument track's number with not selected status.
As for always you can change the script's shortcut to your need and keyboard binding of Delete Track(s) to your settings by changing the script or load the exe file directly by using these settings:

Script Shortcut: F4
My Keyboard Binding in Cakewalk: Shift + x for Delete Track(s)

 

 

Freezed Instrument Track to Audio Track.ahk Freezed Instrument Track to Audio Track.exe

Edited by murat k.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...