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Flavio Castellani

Lenses --> Screenset.

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I was thinking: wouldn't be great to be able to call saved lenses without it resulting in emptying the current screenset? So, if I have lens 5 as mixing view, for example, calling it when I am on screenset1, would leave the latter with that new screen setup. That way, when I switch to another screenset, I could go back to the mixing view as I left it in screenset 1.

As it is today, by using lenses we can not  use screenset, unless we re-define them for each project. By calling a lens,  the screenset is emptied, and you can not set it, duplicate it or doing anything other than calling other ones, resulting in wiping out the  current UI configuration set by the lens .

Annotation 2019-03-09 091735.jpg

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I know what you mean. I too find it annoying that when you change to a different lense, the screenset reverts to "blank".  It does this even if you save the project while a screenset is active.  It would be nice if the screenset was recalled even if you change a lense.

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I stopped using lenses for this very reason. I only use screensets.

IMO, they would have been better off to revamp screensets and making it a much bigger feature. Instead they added another feature that is almost exactly like screensets with the addition of global settings included.

the worst thing is... You cant use both features together without losing something in there some where.

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I've really never taken to either.

When screen sets were new, i messed up a live recording by causing a dropout changing screen sets mid recording.

Cuss cuss Cuss

Changes to the ui i could easily make without causing a drop out manually, one at a time, caused the drop out because they all happened at once.

Plus, I'm kinda slow and can't seem t to remember what i saved in which screen set. I just use the short cut keys to bring up what i want. No drop outs. The short cuts don't change. Works for me.

Edited by Gswitz

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This is an often misunderstood feature. Lenses are a much bigger superset of screensets. They are not a replacement necessarily although for many users screensets are unnecessary since lenses can replace them.

While screensets only store data about open views position and size, lenses control everything related to the presentation of the application, including what functionality is available to the user. It was the original goal to have lenses be the way to dynamically separate multiple sku's of the product. In SONAR imagine seamlessly upgrading from essential to Platinum just via an online unlock that exposed new features via  lenses.

Lenses can be used to switch between completely different workflows unlike screensets.

Well look into your concerns.

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I'm glad this topic was brought up and even happier to see we have the attention of Noel. 

Something different needs to happen- as here I am, a so called experienced long time user, and for the world I can never get the GUI to stay the way I want it from project to project without some minor adjustments once the project is open.  No big deal, but between Lens and Screenset I remain baffled as which one to use. 

I stopped using Screensets when Lenses came along and for the life of me I couldn't sort out what the difference was? I even read the documents!  It seemed to me Lenses did more of what I wanted.  And if I dared to open a screenset as I could not go back to my Lens unless I opened another lens and re opened the original. So I have simply avoided screensets since.  It left me pondering why they still exist. I have since removed that module from my task bar.  

But Lens's have a glitch that I always meant to ask about so I will take this opportunity.   

I have a huge project involving 65 or so songs my partner and I are working on this winter. With 65 songs it's real nice that each project would open and look the same, right.    I'm working with 2 monitors but he's on my laptop with only 1 screen. I opened the projects on the Laptop and even though I tried setting a Lens up for the one screen  they all open with the Console,  PVR  and any multi docks full screen.  So I have to minimize to the dock and save.  This for all 65 projects,,, geezers.  

Then the other glitch is the browser window won't stay minimized. With one monitor you need all the screen you can get for tracking. The workaround was to slide it almost out of view. But it would be nice to just use the double arrows and keep it minimized. Possibly a Sceenset would solve these issues but I'm reluctant to waste time re learning that system again. At the time it was quicker just to do it the hard way...

 

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I see the difference as this (which is probably dumbed down, and not the whole story)

Lenses

  • Global - i.e. available to all projects at any time
  • Limits what functionality is visible at any one time, and how/where it is shown

Screen Sets

  • Per project, so you can't "apply" it to a project (although you can start off with a template that has the screen sets applied)
  • Stores the current layout and size of the various views

Personally, I lean towards Screen Sets, as I prefer to have all the functionality available all of the time - even if it doesn't suit a particular workflow. I expect the control bar etc to look a particular way, so it's familiar to me.

So typically, screen set 2 would be my tracking/arranging window. Track Inspector would be visible but quite often switch between minimised & not, Multidock  & Browser views are minimised. Screen Set 3 is my console view, where Multidock shows the console full screen hiding the track view, and Browser / Track Inspector are minimised. I leave ScreenSet 1 for general duties, knowing I can go to the other two for a "full screen" view of the workflow I'm interested in.

That being said, I can see the value in Lenses for new users who may be overwhelmed by the amount of functionality available on the screen, and want to limit it just to the workflow they're concerned with.

I may find a use for lenses in some editing duties, where I really want a particular bit of functionality disabled so I don't select it by mistake, but for now I'm happy to stick to screen sets and use "undo" when this sort of thing happens.

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I'm still confused as to why when first opening a project - I get a flash of the last saved window arraignment then it reverts back to whatever screen set was last saved. My preference would be to open the project as left the last time it was saved and closed. Is this a difficult task to have an option of last saved state when the project was last saved or closed?

Seems as though it is saved in some fashion if it opens at that state then loads a screen set.

Edited by RBH

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It should already be possible to switch lenses without changing the window layout.

1. Open the 'Lens Manager' (select 'Manage Lenses...' in the Lenses dropdown menu).
2. Select the lens you want to modify.
3. Uncheck 'Window Layout' in the 'Settings' section.
4. Click the save button to save your changes.

Now, whenever you switch to the above lens, your window layout won't change.

As Noel mentioned, lenses are a superset of screensets. By following the above instructions, you're effectively turning off screenset functionality for your lens.

Does that help?

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Let' be simple. For every project my choice is screenshot and I don't bother about lenses at all. With screenshots you have 5 (five) different ways to control your workflow.

From track view with inspector and browser,  to a console view, to buses view, to PPRV view. What do you wish more than that?

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I created my own Lens called Default and it opens every project the way I want the GUI setup. I've never used screensets, can't really see a use for them. But to be fair I'm only recording in Cakewalk...my mixing is done in Mixbus and mastering done in Sound Forge. I'd just as soon be able to get rid of the Multidock and Browser, I have 3 monitors...lots of room for stuff ;)

Bill

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7 hours ago, Ben Staton said:

It should already be possible to switch lenses without changing the window layout.

1. Open the 'Lens Manager' (select 'Manage Lenses...' in the Lenses dropdown menu).
2. Select the lens you want to modify.
3. Uncheck 'Window Layout' in the 'Settings' section.
4. Click the save button to save your changes.

Now, whenever you switch to the above lens, your window layout won't change.

As Noel mentioned, lenses are a superset of screensets. By following the above instructions, you're effectively turning off screenset functionality for your lens.

Does that help?

If you follow Ben's steps and change the lenses as above and resave the lenses, the next time you switch they will not change your current screenset. 

To explain further, a screenset basically saves the "windows layout" and allows you to switch between different layouts. Lenses on the other hand include windows layouts settings among other things. So disabling this in the lens is essentially telling the lens manager to retain the current layout settings when you switch to that lens.
To match the OP's workflow if you don't want a lens to affect the layout of windows you can simply disable this and continue to use screensets after switching to the lens of your choice. 

BTW in the next release we fixed a bug with lenses that could affect new projects created from templates.

I recommend reading this help topic to learn more about lenses when creating your custom lens presets. There are a lot of settings beyond the simple view layouts that screensets store. For example you can set up a lens that shows customized controls in tracks, customize what toolbar modules are available and even customize what features are available. For example you can make a lens that is geared towards mixing and strip out all editing views. Rather than dealing with a single monolithic app with a huge feature set, you can bring in features only when needed using lenses.

Settings that can be loaded by a Lens:

  • Theme. Load the saved UI theme. Note: the Lens only saves a reference to the theme name, so the theme must exist in order for the Lens to load it. If the referenced theme file cannot be found, then the active theme will be used.

  • Control Bar Layout. Load the saved Control Bar configuration. 

  • Window Layout. Load the saved window layout, including size and position. This option functions as a global screenset.

  • Display Settings. Load global display settings that are specified in the Preferences dialog box. 

  • Keyboard Shortcuts. Load any custom keyboard shortcuts that are assigned in Edit > Preferences > Customization - Keyboard Shortcuts. 

  • Track Control Manager. Load the saved Track view control configuration (visibility of Volume, Pan, Mute, Solo, Arm for Recording, etc.). 

  • Track View Control Order. Load the saved Track view control order. 

 

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8 hours ago, Ben Staton said:

It should already be possible to switch lenses without changing the window layout.

1. Open the 'Lens Manager' (select 'Manage Lenses...' in the Lenses dropdown menu).
2. Select the lens you want to modify.
3. Uncheck 'Window Layout' in the 'Settings' section.
4. Click the save button to save your changes.

Now, whenever you switch to the above lens, your window layout won't change.

As Noel mentioned, lenses are a superset of screensets. By following the above instructions, you're effectively turning off screenset functionality for your lens.

Does that help?

Yes, that does help.  Thank you very much.  I'm kicking myself for not seeing this setting in the Lense Manager.

Now I can change windows layouts using Screensets only and save these with my projects.  I can also swap between different screensets.

I will still use Lenses as they give me the ability the hide screen elements that are irrelevant to my current workflow.

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On 3/10/2019 at 7:18 AM, msmcleod said:

Screen Sets

  • Per project, so you can't "apply" it to a project (although you can start off with a template that has the screen sets applied)

 

But you can also import screensets from one project to another if you have two projects open at the same time. I tend to use this method as a way of keeping consistency between projects.

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Lens and Screen set always confused me. I do understand the concept but I think that there are a few quirks.

For example I simply want to do the below and have never been able to do it consistently:

For a single screen, I just want to use the keyboard short-cut [alt-something] to flip between the screen.  I want the console, midi, ... to line up where the track view is thus not I can still use the control bar, in my case I set at the top.   It's either docked or open but half screen with the track view, or maximized but cover the control bar.

So I float the dock and drag sizing the screen to where I want but when I switch screen, it almost always reverted back to dock or half-screen.  Then sometimes it sticks.

Would Lens or Screen (or both) helps me do the above?  Or perhaps a new option of 'fit to window' to allow the above.

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4 minutes ago, micv said:

Lens and Screen set always confused me. I do understand the concept but I think that there are a few quirks.

For example I simply want to do the below and have never been able to do it consistently:

For a single screen, I just want to use the keyboard short-cut [alt-something] to flip between the screen.  I want the console, midi, ... to line up where the track view is thus not I can still use the control bar, in my case I set at the top.   It's either docked or open but half screen with the track view, or maximized but cover the control bar.

So I float the dock and drag sizing the screen to where I want but when I switch screen, it almost always reverted back to dock or half-screen.  Then sometimes it sticks.

Would Lens or Screen (or both) helps me do the above?  Or perhaps a new option of 'fit to window' to allow the above.

I am wondering if you desetect "Windows layout" for the lense that you use. 

Then arrange the windows how you want them to be. Then lock the screenset(s).  ( CTRL + SHIFT + L )

I mainly produce mainly 16 track MIDI files.  For this, I have one lense with "Windows layout" disabled.  In any given MIDI project, I have 4 screensets (Track, PRV, lyrics, Drums) that are relevant for my workflow. All these screensets are locked.  When I select a screenset, the windows reset as I have set them to per screenset as they are all locked.

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3 hours ago, Promidi said:

I am wondering if you desetect "Windows layout" for the lens that you use. 

Then arrange the windows how you want them to be. Then lock the screenset(s).  ( CTRL + SHIFT + L )
 

did those many times, Screenset locks has no affect.

After resizing I can flip any view in the dock bar fine, but when go to Track view and the go to other view it's reverted back to half screen.  When it decides to work, it will work fine until I save, exit.  The next time I open the project will be half screen again.  btw the project is now always open in a windowed box (not maximized).

 

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I now see we are possibly guilty of not reading and understanding the manual for these features. But that said everyone who has posted is a long time user and I would think software features should not be elusive to those who are long time users.  It has obviously become WAY overcomplicated. I just read this thread a few times and I've learned a few new things, but still on trying to apply them to real life everything is still....well elusive to me.  Basically we have music to record and not much time to dig that deep into the software features. Over time we slowly learn. This feature is over 5? years old? so I guess it's slowly sinking in..:) 

Generally I just leave everything alone.  Because I use 2 monitors there is no reason to flip between too many views. With the multi dock on my second monitor I have only to hit the tabs to flip between Console and PVR. I'm more likely to use the old double click the midi track  trick to open the PVR.  

But then I was setting up a laptop for my partner to work with and was forced to use only the one (  lot smaller) screen. I set up a workable view and named it "Laptop"  I had to open all 65 projects on the laptop and  minimize the Multi dock and re save. Dual screen projects will open with the Console view full screen and the custom lens didn't seem to change this. 

But once they are minimized they are easy to make full screen again.  Here the trick ( Micv) A single click on the docking tab will open  dock views half screen, but a double click will make it full screen.  I still have to use the minimize arrows to get rid of it but I'm sure there is a keyboard shortcut.

Keyboard short cuts are important and I'm always game for a new one. Just a while a go I learned the   B = hide/show Browser I = hide/show Inspector these give you instantly more screen space. Also shift B = hide/show buss pane I use a lot.  

https://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=SONAR&language=3&help=KeyboardShortcuts.html

 

Edited by Cactus Music

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