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huik

chord track

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..and how about a chord track, just for better orientation in harmony.

chord track.PNG

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Posted (edited)

@huik

Hello.  Welcome to the forum and to Cakewalk by BandLab or CbB.

Are you suggesting CbB add a chord track?  If so then your post would get more views and discussion by posting in the "Feedback Loop" section of the forum.  The Feedback Loop is where suggestions are normally made.  That section is here:  https://discuss.cakewalk.com/index.php?/forum/8-feedback-loop/

Done.

Edited by Jim Fogle
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On 8/18/2020 at 3:32 PM, huik said:

..and how about a chord track, just for better orientation in harmony.

chord track.PNG

Love this.   Was hoping they would add this concept when they rolled out the Arangement part...then multiple arrangements.   Primary key here is they need to create and easy way to grab the chord (and type) instead of the end user creating one....or pre-creating an absurd number of chords.

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The bakers are probably working on this right now in their "Area-51". As a follow-up to the arranger track...

Just speculating, of course... 😁

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I've seen this request many times, but I've not used a DAW that had a chord track, so I don't know how they work.

In the spirit of offering a solution while we wait for this to happen, is there a (preferably freeware) plug-in that can do some of the functions of a chord track? Are they like Scaler or Instachord?

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1 hour ago, Starship Krupa said:

I've seen this request many times, but I've not used a DAW that had a chord track, so I don't know how they work.

In the spirit of offering a solution while we wait for this to happen, is there a (preferably freeware) plug-in that can do some of the functions of a chord track? Are they like Scaler or Instachord?

Depends on exactly what you want out of a chord track.

Nothing free does what I want.

Scaler 2 or EZ Keys are closest for what I'm looking for.   But neither of those also have the chord progression at the top like the arranger view in the OP (which is something I think Cake walk desperately needs.

There are a few concepts to the idea of a Chord track.   The visualization of where Chords change (without having to resort to painfully tiny markers that the user has to create one by one) 

The other idea is having these chord selection pick and play basic chords for you to preview as you build a song.     More like Scaler or EZKeys (and what Cubase offers)

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I am familiar with using chord tracks in Cakewalk for playing so-called "Intelligent Arrangers" (circa 1990s).  I am not sure exactly what is being advocated here, but it sounds like a track that can be used to display chord names as a song is being played/recorded so musicians can play along with the visual cues--perhaps a re-sizable floating / dockable window?  

BTW, it would be helpful for other users who don't have a lot of DAWs if the feature were described as opposed to alluded to** in addition to a reference (e.g., "like in XYZ [other DAW]").

Edited by User 905133
**(2) wording changed per Starship Krupa's comment below; (1) omitted word inserted
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I agree that descriptions are good. "Like XYZ" is still a useful reference for people who want to investigate. They can go to XYZ's site and get a full description of the feature. I read these as "Cubase has what I'm talking about, go check it out."

Picture=1K words? 😄

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Chord track -global  like this, changes applied to chord track applies to the entire song:

Studio One 4: How to Use the Chord Track

 

Edited by abacab

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2 hours ago, abacab said:

Chord track -global  like this, changes applied to chord track applies to the entire song:

Studio One 4: How to Use the Chord Track

 

I have used the CT in Studio One Pro V4 and changed some chords for all instruments (sans percussive stuff) and it works a treat.

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23 minutes ago, Bapu said:

I have used the CT in Studio One Pro V4 and changed some chords for all instruments (sans percussive stuff) and it works a treat

What no Trick involved 😆

 

I have only started to mess with SO Pro 4 chord track and it is really nice :D 

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2 hours ago, InstrEd said:

.....SO Pro 4 chord track and it is really nice :D 

Agreed.

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I think the first thing a chord track needs to be able to do is chord recognition.

MIDI track - simple! Play the chords in from your MIDI controller, and the chord track shows the chords played based on the data in the MIDI track. Or reads them in from any existing MIDI track. Alternatively, if there is  a circle of fifths feature added to the chord track,  you could play a MIDI part for example, with only Cmaj, or whatever chord you choose, over and over. That would establish a basic chord track, but with the rhythm you want, then use the circle of fifths selector to change the chords to the ones you really want. Probably better if you can actually play, but either way should work.

Audio track - more difficult, but possible. Chord recognition from audio can be hit or miss, depending on the source material, and can still require some editing and tweaking of the result.  It would help if you already knew the chords for the song in order to easily  spot and correct any errors.

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2 hours ago, abacab said:

I think the first thing a chord track needs to be able to do is chord recognition.

MIDI track - simple! Play the chords in from your MIDI controller, and the chord track shows the chords played based on the data in the MIDI track. Or reads them in from any existing MIDI track. Alternatively, if there is  a circle of fifths feature added to the chord track,  you could play a MIDI part for example, with only Cmaj, or whatever chord you choose, over and over. That would establish a basic chord track, but with the rhythm you want, then use the circle of fifths selector to change the chords to the ones you really want. Probably better if you can actually play, but either way should work.

Audio track - more difficult, but possible. Chord recognition from audio can be hit or miss, depending on the source material, and can still require some editing and tweaking of the result.  It would help if you already knew the chords for the song in order to easily  spot and correct any errors.

 

I was thinking Scaler 2 (and maybe EZ Keys are capable of doign the MIDI chord track as you have outlined),  but it doesn't put the output chords into a nice big Chord indicator within the DAW.

It isn't a plugin but Zplane's Decoda does the Audio Track thing about as reasonably well as one might expect with affordable technology.  They released an update that has a basic MIDI file output based on what it decided was playing.   For simple tunes it works pretty well.  Think we are a long way away from handing Jazz chords and more complex musical changes.

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2 minutes ago, Brian Walton said:

 

I was thinking Scaler 2 (and maybe EZ Keys are capable of doign the MIDI chord track as you have outlined),  but it doesn't put the output chords into a nice big Chord indicator within the DAW.

It isn't a plugin but Zplane's Decoda does the Audio Track thing about as reasonably well as one might expect with affordable technology.  They released an update that has a basic MIDI file output based on what it decided was playing.   For simple tunes it works pretty well.  Think we are a long way away from handing Jazz chords and more complex musical changes.

Doing it internally in the DAW would be the preferred method. That way any changes to the chord track would be applied instantly to all tracks in the project, keeping the entire song harmonically intact. That way the DAW is functioning globally as a sort of "Scaler", and any track can follow that chord track. Suggest watching some video tutorials of PreSonus Studio One Pro 4+ to see this feature in action, as they explain it much better than I could. Plus they have it working already.

What I have seen with plugins, is they are specific to the track you are working with. That seems fine for the early stages of songwriting, but a global track would be more useful for re-harmonizing an existing multi-track arrangement.

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1 hour ago, abacab said:

Doing it internally in the DAW would be the preferred method. That way any changes to the chord track would be applied instantly to all tracks in the project, keeping the entire song harmonically intact. That way the DAW is functioning globally as a sort of "Scaler", and any track can follow that chord track. Suggest watching some video tutorials of PreSonus Studio One Pro 4+ to see this feature in action, as they explain it much better than I could. Plus they have it working already.

What I have seen with plugins, is they are specific to the track you are working with. That seems fine for the early stages of songwriting, but a global track would be more useful for re-harmonizing an existing multi-track arrangement.

Yep, I agree within the DAW is preferable.  

Though I'm also looking for a Chord track to also do more than just read the notes that are in a track - which is what your previous post was really pointing towards (and that is still track based (even if it is a mixed down track ala audio extraction).  The global changes across tracks is a whole massive feature in itself.  

SO4 's ability to change pitch across tracks midi and audio is cool (and very impressive) but I don't even see it as a need to have in a chord track concept.    Especially in the early stages of the addition to Cakewalk.

 

 

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20 minutes ago, Brian Walton said:

SO4 's ability to change pitch across tracks midi and audio is cool (and very impressive) but I don't even see it as a need to have in a chord track concept.    Especially in the early stages of the addition to Cakewalk.

Doing pitch changes with audio tracks is probably best left to a "scratch" version of the project, due to potential artifacts of time stretching the pitches. When the desired harmonic end result is arrived at, it would probably be best to re-record the audio tracks for the final mixdown anyway.

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