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John Kalabric

Order VSTi 's in Synth Rack

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Posted (edited)

I mostly use Cakewalk for MIDI with VSTi's. I last used SONAR 9 about 10+ years ago, and just started with Bandlab's Cakewalk.

Two things that bug me are (which may be me not knowing how to do it):

1. I can have 10+ vsti's in the synth rack, so I would like to manually order them. I cannot find anyway to change their order after they have been added.

How do I change the VSTI's order in synth rack?

For example, I may wish to keep all the string section next to each other, and away from the percussion synths.

2. I have a LOT of duplication in my synth rack where I have used the same VSTi more than once. An example would be SFZ to load a soundfont. For each part with a different soundfont, I have a separate VSTi. However, when I double click on one to open the config page for that VSTi, they ALL say "sfx". There is NO differentiation regarding the actual name I have assigned. So I have to make sure I remember which one I am editing/configuring. Gets confusing when they are all SFZ, and a number are a part of a string section.

 

 

 

Edited by John Kalabric

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Point 2) Add 5 copies of a VSTi and Cakewalk names them xxx 1, xxx 2, xxx 3, xxx 4 and xxx 5. Those names appear in the synth rack. Those names appear in the instrument tracks in the track pane.

If you change the name from xxx to yyy, they keep the numbering. And you can't get rid of the numbering.

If you open the GUI, look at the left side of the title bar - that same name appears there. So if you change VSTi 1 one to violins it will say violins 1.

Point 1) The order of the synths in the synth rack is actually irrelevant. Give them names that you can spot easily and you will find each one easily enough. Doesn't matter if strings and percussion are mixed up. You see the name clearly: Fred's Bongos, Pizzicato Violin, Tambourine, Frame Drum.

 

If you disagree with any of this, please give us a screenshot or 2 so we can see your exact problem.

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I think I may be seeing something different to what you describe. As you can see in the screen shot below, I have multiple instances of the same VSTi (in this case SFZ). when i open any of them up, they ALL use SFZ as the windows title bar text (but in lower case). In this case I can deduct which is which based on which soundfont is loaded. However, there are cases where I may re-use the same soundfont, or before I have loaded a soundfont, I can not tell which is open. So to make sure, I close it and explicitly re-open the one I do wish to modify. As I think you appear to be describing, I think that maybe the title should be a combination of the VSTi's name AND the label I have assigned. eg: "SFZ - Bass"

Different VSTi with same Title Bars.png

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As for the placement of vsti's in the rack, try telling that to the bass player that only wants to stand on the left hand side of the stage at every gig!>:(

Anyway, I understand it makes no practical difference to the outcome, but it does make a difference in using the app. With a lot of VSTi's I would need to explicitly scan down the list to pick out my strings section (which could be randomly every second item, in the above example I only have one, but other projects have many more), as opposed to logically grouping them together. The same goes for percussion, or keeping my bass in with my rhythm  etc etc etc. In the above screenshot, you can see my bass is at the bottom, which irks my ***** retentive tendencies, as its away from the rest of the rhythm section and frequency wise, its at the bass. Luckily, at least my kick comes before my snare and hi-hats:D

 The above rack is pretty reasonable as I added parts in a kind of logical order. But try to image if they were randomized! I wouldn't be able to sleep at night.

Colouring tracks/clips makes no practical difference, but all DAWs do it without question. 

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Not giving a decent name in the title bar is specific to sfz.  🙄

Also, it is 32-bit. I presume sforzando doesn't give you the same control over your sound as sfz does? It does put the correct name in the title bar. 😀

You can set the icon for the synth in the synth rack. That might help. A bit.

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Posted (edited)

The decent name is outside of SFZ, as it should relate to the name I give in cakewalk. SFZ has no idea regarding what the host thinks, and the window holding SFZ would be created by the host, and hence the window title would be specified by the host.

Yes, its 32bit.

I once had a look at sforzando years ago, and from memory, I did not like its kind of system wide / non encapsulated environment. So someone else with sforzando needs to speak to that?

Now I am trying to think if I have any 64bit VSTi's; I do have a LOT, but only use a few. This is my first foray of recently (ie a few days) moving to 64b Cakewalk, from Sonar 9, 32b 10+ years ago.

Edited by John Kalabric

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I just tried creating two instances of TTS that comes with Cakewalk, and it DOES bring up the text that I enter in the synthrack. But I still believe it should do the same for 32b VSTi's

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1 hour ago, Nigel Mackay said:

Not necessarily 32-bit problem. Could be sfz.

Maybe have a look again at sforzando.

I tested about 12-15 32-bit virtual instruments from different manufacturers by dragging them from the plug-in browser to the Track View (inserted as simple instruments). All of them just showed the name of the plug-in (no instance number or project name appended).

On 7/29/2020 at 6:53 AM, John Kalabric said:

I mostly use Cakewalk for MIDI with VSTi's. I last used SONAR 9 about 10+ years ago, and just started with Bandlab's Cakewalk.

. . .

An example would be SFZ to load a soundfont. For each part with a different soundfont, I have a separate VSTi. However, when I double click on one to open the config page for that VSTi, they ALL say "sfx". There is NO differentiation regarding the actual name I have assigned. So I have to make sure I remember which one I am editing/configuring. Gets confusing when they are all SFZ, and a number are a part of a string section.

For what its worth, my version of sfz is 64-bit.  It does show the name, instance, and the project name. I am not sure which versions of SONAR it was bundled with, but I have it as part of a SONAR 8.5 64-bit installation on my current PC. 

If you don't have the 64-bit version from rgc:audio, perhaps as Nigel suggested, you could find other (newer) virtual instruments that play soundfont files.

 

Edited by User 905133
to add a missing period

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13 minutes ago, User 905133 said:

For what its worth, my version of sfz is 64-bit.  It does show the name, instance, and the project name. I am not sure which versions of SONAR it was bundled with, but I have it as part of a SONAR 8.5 64-bit installation on my current PC.

It seems the only currently downloadable version is 32-bit. Trouble is, not easy to Google because sfz is a file format as well as a VST. (I remember a marketing guy at work saying you NEVER name a product the same as the technology.)

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I did a quick search on the internet and through the way-back machine, I got the download for version 2.0.0.0 (install app is called sfz197.exe)

However, installed on my box is v2.0.0.1 which is still only 32bit (see image below)

What version number is the 64bit version? and if anyone is willing to share (since it is freeware), could you please upload to somewhere like https://filebin.net/ and either post the link here or PM me the link

NB: The file hashes property page is an extension I have installed.

SFZ File Details.png

Edited by John Kalabric

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I did some more searching, and I found a 64b SountFont player, which is looking pretty good. Its called BassMidiVsti. Easy to find, and its on KVR. Did not find the 64B version of SFZ specifically, but this looks better, and more like SFZ+

http://falcosoft.hu/softwares.html#bassmidi_vsti

  • its 64b
  • it is multitimbral. it can have 16 parts. And of course I would guess you could have multiple instances.
  • it can load up to 5 soundfonts, which are selected by a bank select for each of the 16 parts
  • I loaded a 4GB SF2 file and it didnt skip a beat. 32b SFZ simply ignored the request.
  • it has some extra options regarding reverb (room, hall, plate etc etc) and chorus (mild flanger etc)
  • although the interface isn't anything to write home about, and at least its reserved, and not offensive like many SynthEdit ones
  • One thing to watch out for, is it uses bank select controller 100, not "normal".
  • It does not have the quality options like SFZ & SFZ+

I think I have a new SF2 & SFZ RomPler for my 4.5K Soundfonts (at 36GB) and 12K SFZ files (at 38GB)

Edited by John Kalabric

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Good news!  I have seen other players mentioned in the forum as well.  If you get into creating/editing sounds and banks, there are some threads here that have a number of resources.

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