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Staff View

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Also keep in mind that when you export Cakewalk notation to a program like Sibelius or Finale, it's best to export as a .mid type 1 file, not XML.

First of all, if your piece has more than 23 staves you won't be able to export all of the music as XML.   Also, if you export as XML the graphic inaccuracies will be exported too, so you'll have to edit them in your notation program.  With a MIDI file export,  the MIDI data will export accurately.  You'll still have to do some editing, but there's less chance of errors cropping up than with XML.   

In perfect conditions, I'd use XML upon export, but we don't have that so I prefer to use MIDI to maintain better rhythmic accuracy.

Jerry

 

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On 6/16/2020 at 5:44 PM, msmcleod said:

In the next release, the staff view will respect the global snap setting for note positioning. The note duration settings will remain unchanged.

In other words,  you'll be able to independently set the note duration and the snap positioning. 

Dear msmcleod,

Any chance you know when this new version with the snap function fixed will be available?

Thanks,

Jerry

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On 6/17/2020 at 6:32 PM, jsg said:

the notation editor in a DAW is primarily about MIDI sequencing and editing.  It's not a scoring program, which is essentially a graphics program.  To prepare a score with parts for performance is not a recording function, it's a publishing tool.  ... I do all my MIDI work in Sonar.  I wouldn't expect, or even want, a DAW to be a publishing tool, better in my opinion to have the DAW for the creation and production of music

Couldn't have said it better. 

NB The ability to document guitar voicings using the fretboard display is a most useful feature. 

 

 

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On 6/21/2020 at 12:30 AM, jsg said:

Dear msmcleod,

Any chance you know when this new version with the snap function fixed will be available?

Thanks,

Jerry

More so msmcleod get in touch with Jerry and let him get an early copy so he can test it and give you feedback.

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Staff View is hardly even a nod to composers who are accustomed to and prefer working in traditional notation and/or need to provided printed sheets for instrumentalists. Cakewalk is simply not the place to attempt it.

But chiming in here with the note for Sibelius users (like myself) who want to also have the ability to work with all the wonderful CW tools and workflows:

Remember, it can be Rewired into a Cakewalk project fairly functionally. I do this whenever working on scores (much, much preferable to work in Sib. for composing in "dot and line") with soundtracks/sound design that want to include synchronized  audio elements worked on in CW. I just think of the Rewired Sibelius instance as my Staff editor in this case, and of the audio output of Sib. as a 2-track mix within CW .  Of course, you do not get to edit the sounds of the instrument tracks (staves) individually in CW with any of the controls or tools available in the box there, but if happy working completely in Sibelius for those tracks and then working with additional audio extensively in CW, it keeps everything synced up and is great for the work-in-progress part of your workflow.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
On 6/25/2020 at 3:07 PM, winkpain said:

Staff View is hardly even a nod to composers who are accustomed to and prefer working in traditional notation and/or need to provided printed sheets for instrumentalists. Cakewalk is simply not the place to attempt it.

As I understand (as a user since the MS-DOS versions), when the Staff View was introduced, it was never intended to compete with $500+ full-featured staff editing software. It still doesn't compete because as some have noted (implicitly and/or explicitly), the markets that use music/staff notation have not been vigorously pursued.  (Some people have phrased this idea as: the staff view has been neglected over the decades while other aspects of Cakewalk have been pursued.)

JMO: This does not mean that Cakewalk's Staff View and Staff Printing capabilities couldn't pursue markets that use staff notation.  Of course, being free software might be an issue--I am not sure.  Pre-COVID, schools in the US still used staff notation.  Not sure if the educational use of music notation has dried up.

That being said, except for tweaks that seem to favor digital audio manipulation that messed up the use of the staff view, it still does (almost) as much as was originally intended (as I understand it).

 

Edited by User 905133
to fix a typo. "." location changed

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39 minutes ago, User 905133 said:

As I understand (as a user since the MS-DOS versions), when the Staff View was introduced, it was never intended to compete with $500+ full-featured staff editing software. It still doesn't compete because as some have noted (implicitly and/or explicitly), the markets that use music/staff notation have not been vigorously pursued.  (Some people have phased this idea as: the staff view has been neglected over the decades while other aspects of Cakewalk have been pursued.)

JMO: This does not mean that Cakewalk's Staff View and Staff Printing capabilities couldn't pursue markets that use staff notation.  Of course, being free software might be an issue--I am not sure.  Pre-COVID, schools in the US still used staff notation.  Not sure if the educational use of music notation has dried up.

That being said, except for tweaks that seem to favor digital audio manipulation that messed up the use of the staff view, it still does (almost) as much as was originally intended (as I understand it).

 

Agreed.

CW, nor any other DAW, is the right tool for the particular job of writing (certainly not publishing) music notation properly, and I don't expect it to be. That's why I shared my Rewire/Sibelius "workaround". It provides the best of both worlds in a way.

However, I also agree that it will be a grand day if/when the fantastic folks at CbB have the time to upgrade the Staff View, since there are certainly enough of us who like to work with notation in DAW composition (as this and other threads bear out), or at least like to have it as a viable, full-functioning option.

I am deeply and continually impressed over this last year with CbB's staff and their unflagging attention to this product and its broad base of constituent users, and I know you can't please everyone, but I highly doubt it is true that, as I read elsewhere here by someone seeming to say "why bother" fixing Staff View when they said there are "easily 100 or more" times as many people who don't use Staff View as those who do. I wonder where they got their data from! And since it remains as part of the program, it seems worthy as any of the other tools for upgrade consideration. 

As this is the Feedback Loop, that is my feedback.

But as I say, I'm quite happy working with the Rewire option when needed.

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Posted (edited)
35 minutes ago, winkpain said:

Agreed.

CW, nor any other DAW, is the right tool for the particular job of writing (certainly not publishing) music notation properly, and I don't expect it to be. That's why I shared my Rewire/Sibelius "workaround". It provides the best of both worlds in a way.

However, I also agree that it will be a grand day if/when the fantastic folks at CbB have the time to upgrade the Staff View, since there are certainly enough of us who like to work with notation in DAW composition (as this and other threads bear out), or at least like to have it as a viable, full-functioning option.

I am deeply and continually impressed over this last year with CbB's staff and their unflagging attention to this product and its broad base of constituent users, and I know you can't please everyone, but I highly doubt it is true that, as I read elsewhere here by someone seeming to say "why bother" fixing Staff View when they said there are "easily 100 or more" times as many people who don't use Staff View as those who do. I wonder where they got their data from! And since it remains as part of the program, it seems worthy as any of the other tools for upgrade consideration. 

As this is the Feedback Loop, that is my feedback.

But as I say, I'm quite happy working with the Rewire option when needed.

I've produced 10 symphonies, many short works, songs and 14 albums using the CW staff view.  It works for composition if you are composing in and for the electronic medium. I've used Sibelius for my scores for 15 years or so and will continue to.  The staff view is for MIDI input and editing, and of course, composition. It's not for publishing, preparing final scores or parts or for presenting written music to players for rehearsal, recording or performance.  Once you understand the difference, it's not hard to exploit the staff view for composing.  You can hear numerous recordings I've made in the "Songs" section of this forum and I think you'll agree that for complex arrangements and orchestration the staff view works quite well.  It just needs a few tweaks and bug fixes as we discussed above.

Jerry

Edited by jsg
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Agreed, agreed. Happy to join in the conciliatory mood here. Yes, we all continue to agree that Staff View is what it is and isn't what it isn't, 'tho tweaks and fixes would be appreciated.

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I forgot to tell you all about the workaround I discovered in the staff view when the snap function gets stuck on 1/32 notes.

Here it is:  Revert the screen set you're using to its saved version. 

This will, at least temporarily, fix the snap so that it can be used with larger note values...

Jerry

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On 6/25/2020 at 5:53 PM, jsg said:

It just needs a few tweaks and bug fixes as we discussed above.

Amen to that Jerry. 

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