AmpleSound says I need to delay track by 50ms to get guitar to line up. Is the attached thread still relevant?

[yeto 41]

Is there still no track delay?

Since it is an instrument track would I just use the Track Inspector setting "Time+", as shared in the thread, to do the same thing as track delay?

Also, I see shared in the thread that you can change the start time for a clip. How would I delay the start time by -50ms?

Or do I just use the nudge tool once I have completed the part in PRV which is how I create the clip? I have tried this but I have to keep nudging (for playback) and unnudging (to edit so everything aligns in PRV) as I am working in PRV to edit the clip which is somewhat frustrating. 

Lions, Tigers and Bears Oh My.

Thank you for any help,
yeto

Edited February 16 by yeto

[David Baay 502]

A quick search found a is 5-year-old thread that seems to suggest the Amplesound synth engine has huge latency, but doesn't report plugin delay to the host so you have to manually offset  existing MIDI that's driving the Amplesound synth 50ms early to have Amplesound play in sync with other tracks.  This sounds pretty goofy, if still applicable, but that's my reading of it: 

http://forum.cakewalk.com/Ample-Guitar-great-sound-but-latency-m2989102.aspx

All of this might no longer be applicable. Have you tried playing it in real time?

If still necessary, MIDI can be offset using the Time+ control in the Track Inspector (-100 ticks  = 50ms early at 125bpm). But it can't offset an event that's at 1:01:000 so you might have to start your whole project at 2:01:000.

Alternatively, you could create a 'Delay' bus through which every audio/synth track in your project except Amplesound is routed to get things in sync, but you wouldn't be able to do any recording in real time.

Edited February 19 by David Baay

[yeto 41]

1 hour ago, David Baay said:

"All of this might no longer be applicable. Have you tried playing it in real time?"

I am creating the track in PRV. To get the sound to line up I am nudging the track -50ms and it sounds fine. The only downside is that after nudging when I go back into PRV to edit, the notes are not in align with the rest of the tracks.

"If still necessary, MIDI can be offset using the Time+ control in the Track Inspector (-100 ticks  = 50ms early at 125bpm). But it can't offset an event that's at 1:01:000 so you might have to start your whole project at 2:01:000."

It is an instrument track. Will this (Time+) still work with an instrument track. (Please explain as if I am a 3rd grader) 

 

 

Edited February 19 by yeto

[David Baay 502]

Yes it's available on Instrument tracks. Click the MIDI tab at the bottom of the Track Inspector (keyboard shortcut 'I') to see the MIDI controls  for an Instrument track. Time+ is the third field up from the bottom of the righthand pane of the Inspector.

 

[yeto 41]

3 minutes ago, David Baay said:

Yes it's available on Instrument tracks. Click the MIDI tab at the bottom of the Track Inspector (keyboard shortcut 'I') to see the MIDI controls  for an Instrument track. Time+ is the third field up from the bottom of the righthand pane of the Inspector.

 

Does the Time+ feature work the same as a Track Delay feature?

[David Baay 502]

Positive values delay playback of the offset track against the rest of the project, and negative values advance it. But it's fixed value in MIDI ticks, so you'll have to calculate the offset for a given, fixed project tempo.

To advance the Ampleguitars track by 50ms:

Offset = - Tempo / 2.5

[yeto 41]

14 minutes ago, David Baay said:

Positive values delay playback of the offset track against the rest of the project, and negative values advance it. But it's fixed value in MIDI ticks, so you'll have to calculate the offset for a given, fixed project tempo.

To advance the Ampleguitars track by 50ms:

Offset = - Tempo / 2.5

Thank you for taking time out of your day to reply. This is very helpful. 

[David Baay 502]

Oops. Make that Offset = - Tempo / 1.25

Glad to help.

[yeto 41]

20 hours ago, David Baay said:

Oops. Make that Offset = - Tempo / 1.25

Glad to help.

Sorry for the additional question:

Is the 1.25 related to 125 BPM? Is that where that number comes from?

[David Baay 502]

Indirectly, yes. It just happens that I like to use 125bpm as a baseline for relating ticks to milliseconds at a given tempo because it's exactly 2 ticks/ms, making the math easy.

Here's the full derivation; you would substitute a different 'delay' value in ms to get the simplified formula for a different delay:

ticks =  beats/minute x 960 ticks/beat / 60000 ms/minute x 50 ms --> beats/minute  x  0.8  --> Tempo / 1.25

EDIT: And, of course, you need to enter a negative value in time+ to advance the AmpleGuitars track, effectively delaying the rest of the project relative to it; so the formula gets a minus sign:  - Tempo / 1.25

 

 

Edited February 20 by David Baay

[yeto 41]

19 hours ago, David Baay said:

Indirectly, yes. It just happens that I like to use 125bpm as a baseline for relating ticks to milliseconds at a given tempo because it's exactly 2 ticks/ms, making the math easy.

Here's the full derivation; you would substitute a different 'delay' value in ms to get the simplified formula for a different delay:

ticks =  beats/minute x 960 ticks/beat / 60000 ms/minute x 50 ms --> beats/minute  x  0.8  --> Tempo / 1.25

EDIT: And, of course, you need to enter a negative value in time+ to advance the AmpleGuitars track, effectively delaying the rest of the project relative to it; so the formula gets a minus sign:  - Tempo / 1.25

 

 

This is great information to have. Again, thank you for taking time to help.

yeto

[yeto 41]

On 2/20/2020 at 1:00 PM, David Baay said:

ticks =  beats/minute x 960 ticks/beat / 60000 ms/minute x 50 ms --> beats/minute  x  0.8  --> Tempo / 1.25

 

 

 

I am still somewhat confused. Where is the 0.8 coming from? Also, just to be sure, the Time+ input box is ticks and not milliseconds.

 

[scook 2,094]

Adding parentheses to aid in reading

(960/60000)*50 = 0.8

960 is the default number of ticks per quarter note set in preferences

There are 60000 milliseconds in a minute

 

reducing the units in the formula to determine the units of the result

((beat/minute)*(ticks/beat)/(ms/minute))*ms

simplifies to

((ticks/minute)/(ms/minute))*ms

simplifies to

(ticks/ms)*ms

or

ticks

 

[yeto 41]

19 minutes ago, scook said:

Adding parentheses to aid in reading

(960/60000)*50 = 0.8

960 is the default number of ticks per quarter note set in preferences

There are 60000 milliseconds in a minute

 

reducing the units in the formula to determine the units of the result

((beat/minute)*(ticks/beat)/(ms/minute))*ms

simplifies to

((ticks/minute)/(ms/minute))*ms

simplifies to

(ticks/ms)*ms

or

ticks

 

So for my guitar part/song (the tempo is 120 BPM):
(step 1) 120 * 960 / 60000 = 1.92
(step 2) 1.92 * 50ms (the delay AmpleSound recommends) = 96 ticks 
(step 3) I would enter -96 in the Time+ input box so that my rhythm guitar part will align with the rest of my tracks. I also have my song starting at the 3rd measure.

Do I have everything correct?

Thank all of you for helping and not flaming for all my amateur questions. I did go to approx. 10 different websites to study but I just couldn't get everything to click.

yeto

 

 

[scook 2,094]

The math is correct.

Add it to the project and see if this is still needed by the plug-in. It is a nondestructive change so it can easily be modified if necessary.

 

[David Baay 502]

Yes, but the point of the forumula was simplify it to:

-120/1,25 = -96 ticks 

Edited February 23 by David Baay

[scook 2,094]

Yes reducing the constants to a single value simplifies the equation making the exercise easier to compute.

[yeto 41]

4 hours ago, David Baay said:

Yes, but the point of the forumula was simplify it to:

-120/1,25 = -96 ticks 

Yes, I understood that...I just was not completely understanding. It's not your fault that I couldn't fully grasp all the numbers and I greatly appreciate all your help. Although I have the number I was looking for "-96" I would still like to know where the 1.25 comes from. I am just not seeing it from the formula you provided. 

"ticks =  beats/minute x 960 ticks/beat / 60000 ms/minute x 50 ms --> beats/minute  x  0.8  --> Tempo / 1.25"

I still don't understand how you arrived at 1.25.

Edited February 23 by yeto

[scook 2,094]

1/1.25 = .8