Michael Fogarty

thanks, everybody. I am just going with lowering the input gain which was my initial question.  I was looking for confirmation, not direction if that makes sense and I got it. The individual tracks all sound fine, and he wants a really hot mix. I am using a clipper on some tracks. The mixes already sound a thousand times better so I am not going to start from scratch. The client is stoked. I also added keys as a bonus.

Thank you, and thank you again.

On 2/18/2024 at 3:40 AM, bvideo said:

Red-lighting the prochannel EQ is definitely worth avoiding when expecting it to show useful levels.

But just for fun, I overloaded the master bus with an audio track & the master bus input gain. Reduced the master bus master fader until the master bus meter was never red. Then enabled the prochannel eq & set a mild curve. The prochannel overload light was full on.  But I did not hear any artifacts while the audio played. So the red lights didn't seem to correspond with audible artifacts.

Of course some other VST or prochannel effects could react badly when processing "out of range" data, even when processing in floating point, so there might be several reasons for not fixing master bus overload using the master fader.

I don't use prochannel.

On 2/16/2024 at 11:28 PM, Andres Medina said:

Bear in mind that you can quick group tracks and/or buses and lower the volume of all with one stroke.

Depending on your levels, one way to go is Quick Group and lower all the tracks involved.

If the tracks have acceptable levels, then I would do the quick grouping at the bus level.

I do both all the time.

I never touch the Main Output.

yes, never considered the output volume. talking about the input gain.

On 2/17/2024 at 1:58 AM, 57Gregy said:

How did you determine that it's "too hot"? Can you hear distortion?

without a limiter it would be bouncing off the ceiling.

rebuild ten songs and over 500 tracks? I considered this hence the post but is it necessary? It seems you and David Baay disagree with each other. Where is truth? Yes, every instrument has been treated with great care. If it were a sensitive soundscape, smooth jazz or heavily acoustic I wouldn't even be asking this question, but its multiple  tracks of smashing drums and amped guitars so I thought it worth asking. Thanks for chiming in.

Hi. I've inherited a 10 song project with many playing errors which I have fixed,  but my master bus is way too hot. I have everything going through buses -drums, vox, organ, piano, guitars, acoustics, etc. The mix is good now, but when I summed everything it's just too hot. Is the best remedy sonically to lower all the buses by the same amount -lets say .3db, or is it ok to just lower the input of the master bus (it would have to be -.6 to not clip. )What effect does that have? Am I hurting something by doing that? Feels weird to have everything going in their hot and just lower it. Or am I making too big a deal out of it? Should I put a clipper at the top of the master bus? (the genre is alternative and the client wants it to sound a bit tough/dirty so I'm not worried about that 
 

PS I know about rolling off the lows of different instruments, etc, but simply across the board on all the songs the master is too hot. Most have over 50 tracks and do restart the whole mix again would be way too tough. It's my fault this happened. I got everything sounding great, but it's just too hot.

I have a client who can't open my exported Cakewalk midi file. Does anyone have any experience? Seems the problem is an Ableton one. Do I have to  export the tracks one track at a time?

I am exporting one at a time. This works.

hi Charles. Probably at some point you had, or copied something further down the timeline. I have tried Control X, delete but have yet to find a solution other than setting a from, thru point.

I would think it is your usb connection going to sleep. Have you done suggested tweaks for using a DAW in windows? That being said, I prefer using a real midi connection to USB. It can be a pain at times.

1 hour ago, David Baay said:

When the Smart tool is used in the top half of a clip, it should automatically operate as the Move tool and display the relevant cursor.

will try this asap -I wondered why is was called a smart tool.

2 minutes ago, John Vere said:

I use T which opens the tool menu right where the mouse pointer is. This is pretty fast if you are good at both mouse and shortcuts 

that's nice -it doesn't toggle between the two but at least it puts it closer to reach -thank you John. Using it now.

How do I make a shortcut so I can toggle back and forth between the smart tool and the move tool? Working on a client with phrasing issues, and skipping beats and I by mouse have to go back and forth between them repeatedly. Would be nice to be able to touch a key instead. It says that the smart tool is F5 (though when I push F5 it goes to Now because I bound it top that years back ) and the Move tool is F7 (doesn't do anything.)

Bandlab or Cakewalk?

I think saving as .wav is the way to go. That way if you have to make post edits your loss of quality will be way less, or if you send to talent to collaborate, mix, or master. I have been using this for years and I mean years. Assuming it is still free.

https://winlame.sourceforge.io/index.html

this is hell. Did you try rolling back? I am 1.4.11. Can you get it? Do you have it?

does this really work in Reaper? Do they have a way to slow down audio? Skeptical.
From what I can see, but I am often wrong, you want to make some tempo changes. Do you mean to ritard in places? Or am I wrong? The audio itself won't slow down, it will be slower getting to it. If you recorded the audio at 90, and want it to be 85 in a certain section, outside of re-recording it, I send it to a utility like SoundForge and time stretch it. Are there a lot of tracks?

On 10/22/2023 at 8:42 AM, msmcleod said:

Saving the project as a Standard MIDI File will export the tempo map inside it.

This is the standard way of transferring tempo maps between DAW's.

Just for clarification, within CbB:

• File -> Save As .mid will include the tempo map,  File -> Export MIDI will not.
• File -> Open a .mid as a project will import the tempo map,  File -> Import MIDI will not.

I saw the video - great stuff. Is that you? 

I understand how to save Cakewalk project files as SMF. I send these to all the talent I work with. In Logic I tried to find a link for my client to “save as” so that I can use his midi file but I can’t find anything online., only select regions and export.

6 hours ago, David Baay said:

Hi Michael, I would be happy to take a look at one of these for you. It may not be so much work that it requires payment. I've been recording without a click for years and using Set Measure/Beat At Now to align the timeline to the music when needed. I'm a MIDI guy, but the process is essentially the same for audio; it just takes a little longer to make sure you're setting the timeline too transients accurately. If the click from Logic is truly well synced to the performance, it will be easier. But if that's the case, you might also look into having the client export/save the tempo map as a .MID file that you can open in CbB to bring in the map.

P.M. me a link to a download (a zipped CbB project folder or OMF file). Should be able to get to it tonight if not sooner.

P.S. Had a listen to the MP3s and snapped the first 8-10 bars of the raw one. Client definitely has a unique sense of how long a phrase should be and where chord changes should happen in addition to the drifting timing. I don't envy you, but the basic chore of finding the beats and setting the tempo is not too difficult. Would be easier with a guitar track alone.

thank you David. Lot to think about here. At this point song 2 isn’t done yet, so nothing to send. I am more worried about the “how long a phrase should be part”. You put that into words well. I used to do this same work on 8 track TEAC recorders, splicing and moving so cutting and dragging on computer is much easier, but would be much more accurate if I could cut at and paste to a measure.

  So, is it better that he sets his logic to not follow him, or leave it as is, and send me a midi file? I read online a day or so ago that the tempo map won’t translate to another DAW.

edit: probably a dumb question, but is what you will be make it accurate enough to soft quantize parts of a midi take on a VST? - or just helps it to line up. I assume since he is drifting it wouldn’t work.

Thanks, everybody. I thought I would put what I was dealing with and what I ended up with.  I just cut and edited. It's difficult to explain this, at least for me. If you listen to Dog Blue Thyme orig that is what was there. It seems that maybe Logic has a function where the metronome follows you. So, the click is following him. As you will be able to see. he has very good timing very good feeling once he's rolling, and an interesting approach to chords -definitely unique compared to a typical 12-bar.  It's just that he can't count to four. He couldn't follow my track, and he couldn't sing and play the guitar at different times. (aka multitrack). He can't follow a click -it is going, but he doesn't follow it -he had it set to follow him. Thank God for your natural gifts. He wants to release his material so badly and I plan on helping him to reach that goal. What I did have him do is go back and follow his track and give me a clean guitar track even if he has to punch just so I get all the sections. This worked well and I will keep this formula for the next many songs. I actually ended up leaving some of the idiosyncrasies to make it interesting. I was/am not happy to make a shoddy production. I want him to have his dream come true.

I would still be interested in the best way to do this for the other songs -or pay somebody to do it. So far msmcleod's idea makes sense to me.
John Vere, ever since the old forums, every time I see your name the word association makes me see a green tractor out in a field in Idaho. Not a bad image.

dog blue thyme (the top track) is the track he sent me
dog blue for drums (lower track) is my edit with a quick one take bass and wurlie (after writing out the chords and measures for the drummer and talent.

Thanks, everybody. I really appreciate this

.

gosh, I've never messed around with that. ISn't the windows default lower case. Oh, is your computer in French?

it works for me. My path is:

c:\program files\common files\vst3\Play.vst3.

Did you close restart your computer? That's what it takes for me sometimes if it is the first time to find the VST. Keep in touch.

Layout -sort by manufacturer -East West.

Hi Max. Don't know why you feel the need to tell me that good music is not usually lined up to a beat, but here is an explanation. Yes, it is a good song,. Yes, he is paying me well, and why do I want it to match the measures? First of all, I have to make multiple edits of the 4 tracks because he skips meaning, he doesn't let it come around to the 1 before he starts singing again -he is random -and he jumps in at the most random places. So, I have to cut and move his guitar playing and voice many times through the song, and of course, move everything forward to make space to do so. If lined up to measures, I can easily cut, paste, and move around, but if not I am doing it to his audio click which is much more tedious. Once I do this,  I need to outsource drums (sends me 13 tracks) and multiple instruments so nice to have it line up to the measure (not the beat) so I can see who is off timing to the measure and cut and paste easily when grafting.  All songs I produce follow the measures. I am not talking about quantizing it and making it fit the beat. And the main reason I am doing this, is because he desperately wants a professionally produced song. Pray for me. (smiles). The things we do for love.

23 minutes ago, mettelus said:

Quick question to clarify the OP... are all of the tracks synced to each other? One of the quickest (manual) methods is to Set Measure/Beat at Now (Shift-M) as you work through the track. As long as the tracks are in sync with each other, this will let you insert a tempo map point each time it drifts. Typically every bar or every other bar is common, but sometimes you need to go to a beat level if it is all over the place. This does not adjust the audio at all, it only adjust the tempo map to line up that audio.

thank you for your response -and I was just about to add this but went to lunch -you caught it. Yes, all of his tracks are lined up with each other including the audio click. . Insert each time it drifts -way too much work. what does that mean "go to a beat level"?

I have a client who does not understand tempo and is meter-challenged. He has only ever played by himself and has been doing it for years, and though I have tried to teach him how to count, he can't. He also can't follow a drum loop or a click. He recorded a song in Logic and the .wav in SoundForge shows 100's  of tempo changes -foreign to me and SoundForge almost didn't accept it.

To the point. He did seem to manage to learn to follow the click this time but it is not a steady tempo. Somehow Logic fluctuates and follows the performance?  Mystery to me. I would like to get Cakewalk to follow it so it lines up with the click so I can make the many edits as they fall on the measure. Explanation -he will come in 1/4 note too early or 1/2 a bar too late, so I need to cut it all up to make it fit. This is not a problem for me, but what I would prefer is that it all falls on the beat not just with his click but in Cakewalk so that I can be sure of a steady cut. If someone were to do the work for me, I AM NOT ASKING YOU TO MAKE THE EDITS. I want you to make his audio click track, vox, and two guitars fall on the beat in Cakewalk.  It doesn't have to fall on the measure as I can change all that, but it would be nice if it fell on the beat.

I have looked at audiosnap, etc. but this is beyond my expertise

I can pay you or trade services. I am a session keyboard player.

Hopefully yours

thank you. Well, no, I'm not. (handy with a soldering iron). Have many friends/colleagues who could build it but I wanted it by this weekend. Amazingly expensive.