AB7

Well, the sale price for annual membership is a fair price and it comes with Sonar and the membership extras (which I do not care about).  $105 for a year - with this discount that expires April 6 - two days from now.

Will the price several months from now be less?  No one knows.  I really appreciate Noel's recent response.  He is a class act.  And frankly between him and other Bakers,  the real extra perk is the fantastic customer support on issues and the like.  I know I have made requests privately and they have gone out of their way to help me.  I imagine there are many other great things they do that do not get publicized.

Perhaps this may be a way to make requests of Bandlab regarding issues raised on this forum:

https://help.bandlab.com/hc/en-us

Lots of good questions here.  I think the question about the usability of he software after a subscription expires is a really good one.   What about now?  If someone pays for the bandlab membership today, gets Sonar, and then cancels the bandlab membership, does Sonar still allow saving, etc?

I know with Adobe Pro, if I stop paying my monthly rate, I can no longer use it.  But somehow I do not think a DAW with projects that go on for years for various reasons,  can be considered akin to Adobe pro.  

At some reasonable point of payment(s), the product needs to be able to be fully usable without paying more money.

Otherwise, people are going to start exporting their projects in a way that other DAWS can read them, etc., and then start using the other DAW that does not require "renewals" to operate.   There is no sense saving it solely in a format that may not be available later.  This can lead to a lose-lose.

If someone knows the best way to address these concerns where someone at Bandlab is open to hearing them, I hope a link gets posted for that.

20 minutes ago, noynekker said:

Many of us had to have a "plan B" in 2018, and many here have mentioned money spent elsewhere . . . but we were also able to keep moving forward with the Cakewalk by BandLab free version, which ain't no sub standard DAW, and only ripened on the vine over the last few years. Agreed, the DAW is not going to get the attention or priority of engineering resources from the Mr. BIG corporation . . . but BandLab seems more solid than the last few business partners Cakewalk had . . . so, what should we music creators care, as long as we have a pathway to the future. Nothing is going to end, we can still open our older projects 5 years from now, right ? (he says hopefully) . . . it will just cost more . . . yep, more than free.

Nice post.  It can be a win-win.  Bandlab can get credibility with a professional DAW in its ranks.  And hopefully, revenues from Sonar, whether through the subscription and/or other means, goes to Sonar staff and Sonar R&D to make it sustainable and a continued evolving product.  Some may go to overhead, but that is ok too, as long as it does not drain the money reasonably needed for Sonar staff and Sonar R&D.

1 hour ago, Wookiee said:

@AB9 somewhat confused here not sure how a paid for subscription is a demo when everything works. 

Let's try and clarify. 

If you pay the subscription you get full access as long as you pay the subscription monthly (or yearly), that is not a demo. (The yearly subscription is a little cheaper) 

If you register for access to the trial, which is three days long, you get full access. 

After the trial period expiries, and you decided not to proceed with paying for a subscription, it will become a demo version. 

Is that clear?

I think so - I said it was " only like a demo at this point, if the monthly (or annual) subsciption is not purchased.

But apparently, you are indicating that one can save and exprrt during the three day trial.  If that is true, then my post above is inaccurate and I appreciate your correction.

Either way, I believe we are both saying the same thing for the subsciption - one gets full access and can save, export, etc.  

And as I stated above, the subscription can be canceled for whatever reason, including any better option down the road.

I assume with the subscription - one can save and export Sonar projects.  If that is so, then it is only like a demo at this point, if the monthly (or annual) subsciption is not purchased.

So that is about $15 a month for the current subscription offering.  If somehow Sonar gets released in a way that costs less, than cancel the subscription as stated above.

Meanwhile, I think it is good that people are expressing a variety of comments.  

It should be kept in mind that the purchasers generally do not "own" the software.   It is generally a "license" - which is something short of full ownership.  

So you can have permission to use it under certain contractual provisions.

I subscribe to Adobe Pro and Google Drive (5 T), Microsoft 365, etc.  Not an issue.  

Under the old Cakewalk/Sonar days, there was a one-time charge and there were charges for updates.  The need to buy the updates was often there.   Reliant operating systems changed, VST arose and changed, etc.  And there were unstable times in terms of the actual "owners" of the software - not the consumers and not really the software itself.

As stated before, if the Bakers do not get paid well, this will not be sustainable, and that is a lose-lose.  If Bandlab overcharges, then they will not make it in the market.   It seems that they know that.

For those that disdain subscriptions as stated on the forum, they are certainly entitled to their opinion and I think it is good that the opinion is voiced, so Bandlab knows that there is a group of people that feel that way, even if I am not so concerned.  

Now I am seriously going to open up some Skinny Pop!

I sort of took from Noel's post, that if one buys the bandlab membership, then that includes Sonar and that there would be no price increase for those who bought that membership to keep Sonar.

If that is wrong, please advise.  Thank you.

Here is a way I am looking at it for now:

I am purchasing Sonar by buying the bandlab membership.  And I am considering that the bandlab membership is basically of no cost.

The price for Sonar, including its continued sustainabability with enough funds, and updates, is all worth it for the price of the bandlab membership.

(I am not saying this for "Next."  And I certainly support those that want other pricing.  But if the price is too low and the Bakers cannot make a decent salary, etc., then eventually we have an unstable platform.)

33 minutes ago, Noel Borthwick said:

It includes both Sonar and Next at no extra fee which is a great value if you do the math. Also included are all the standard BandLab membership perks like distribution promotion etc.

Thank you Noel.  So the bandlab membership includes Sonar, with no extra fee beyond the bandlab membership.   And if one is a bandlab member, then there is no additional fee for Sonar.   All good inho.  That is fair pricing.  And no one has to use the other membership perks.  

And as you said, if later they figure out other Sonar pricing that does not include the membership, great.

I do not mind the subscription or plan idea at all.

I have asked some questions for clarification - such as - does bandlab membership include Sonar - with no extra fee?  Just want to know.  I do think it is time for Bandlab to start clarifying pricing, whatever it is.

There are often critiques on this forum and almost always they are made to make sure the product and presentation of the product improves.

Imho, no one should abandon Cakewalk or Sonar.   It is a great, deep, reliable program and for me, it is especially important because I can open files from decades ago in various iterations of Cakewalk/Sonar.  And good luck finding a DAW with as helpful people as the Bakers with this forum, etc.

So,  for clarity, if one buys the Bandlab membership subsciption, does that person have to pay an additional price for Sonar later?  Or will the Sonar price be included in that membership for the foreseeable future?

The bandlab membership price, if it includes Sonar without an additional Sonar price later, is fair.  One doesn't need to use the other bandlab membership services.

7 minutes ago, User 905133 said:

Just a guess: Because the Membership is a Bandlab (the phone/browser) thing that was available to people who use Bandlab.  After that Bandlab (the company) decided to offer the experimental/sort of early access versions of Cakewalk Sonar and Cakewalk Next to both Bandlab users and CbB/SONAR users.

So, they came up with the Backstage Pass as the vehicle to do that.

Maybe they did it to be sensitive to the needs and desires of Bandlab and CbB users who were getting antsy and wanted some early release hands on software?

Makes sense.   And I am not complaining.  The Bakers are super fantastic.  And Sonar and CbB are fabulous.

I just want to clarify that after the three days, use of Sonar and being able to save it - is about membership - whether paid monthly or annually.

That is why the Website states about how to gain access to Backstage Pass and then provides a link to "Get Membership":

"How to gain access to Backstage Pass

If you’re currently a BandLab Member, you’ll be able to access these experimental features now. We’ll catch you backstage!

Get Membership"'

This is from their website at https://blog.bandlab.com/introduction-to-backstage-pass/

"How to gain access to Backstage Pass

If you’re currently a BandLab Member, you’ll be able to access these experimental features now. We’ll catch you backstage!

Get Membership"'

Why doesn't it say:  "Get Backstage Pass"

It seems like backstage pass (after 3 days) is membership.

19 minutes ago, Resonant Serpent said:

Three days isn't long enough. Some DAWs are handing out 30 to 60 day demos. 

I hear you.  Universal Audio gives a 14 day demo on a plugin.  Imagine how much more time is needed to check out an entire DAW!

Thank you all.   I can see where there is a 3 day demo so to speak.  Perhaps that is what is meant by Backstage pass.

Other than the 3 day demo, the only other thing is a subscription - either by month or by year.

So, if I am correct, there is no pass beyond 3 days without bandlab membership.

So, what is the exact link for buying a backstage pass, if somehow this is different from membership?
I can find membership.

Thanks!

It is a "cakewalk" to use it.   The overall name makes sense.   It is relatively simple and easy to get great results in recording.  I first got into it because it was Windows based and had (and has) great midi implementation.  It is still much easier for me to wrap my mind around it, than Cubase for example.

That fact that it is a "cakewalk" does not mean that it is not deep.  It is deep, and allows for many layers of knowledge for its use.  But that does not mean it is complicated to use.  It is easy make a great product.

And it comes with a super forum and staff people that are very attentive, kind, knowledgeable and approachable!  That is worth a lot!

My 2 cents.

99% of dentists recommend Windows 10.

Are there any issues at all about having Sonar and CWB on the C drive?  Any reduction of performance of either noted?

Is this new Sonar still in the beta phase?

I assume when it is out of beta there will be a major announcement, etc.

54 minutes ago, Heath Row said:

Either my getting older and the effects of my pain medication including high dosage morphine patches are messing with my sense of time, but I think Microsoft should take their foot off the pedal for a while and work on what they got for a bit longer. I don't know, maybe it's just me.

I hear you.  Frankly, I like Windows 10 better than Windows 11.  Windows 11 messed with the explorer menu and I thought Windows 10 was better.

Sometimes it seems like MS just makes changes for the purpose of making changes, rather than fixing problems.

But if these changes are going to come down the pike, and if eventually Windows 10 is not going to be serviced anymore by MS, we do not need to know what is being planned.  And of course, what if DAWs and other audio related software starts gearing towards 12?  Will that matter to earlier version people?

It seems there are some inklings that Windows 12 might be out this summer.

Are there any indications of how this might affect audio, video, and DAWs?

6 hours ago, jesse g said:

I remember when Cakewalk would go around the country and give tutorials and show off their new products in music stores.  This is how I first became familiar with Z3TA and Project 5. They came to the Sam Ash music store just outside of Philadelphia, PA and did their presentation, we had a good time meeting folks in the area that used Sonar and we swapped phone numbers and ideas.

Great!  This is along the lines of my post above.  But now these events can be livestreamed as well as in person.

And with the new Sonar coming out, a Sonar Tour would be really cool, help promote the product, and help create a critical mass of users, so that it is sustaintable for Cakewalk and for use.

Perhaps Cakewalk can make a deal with Guitar Center, to use their stores at various locations,  And Guitar Center could have a promotion for it.

Pathfinder - you are welcome.

You might also check gearspace.com for more discussions on the Lewitt pure tube, the CM-5, etc.

Examples: 

https://gearspace.com/gear/stellar-professional-microphones/cm-5

https://gearspace.com/board/product-alerts-older-than-2-months/1406062-lewitt-releases-pure-tube.html

Wishing you great success!