Jerry Gerber

Also keep in mind that when you export Cakewalk notation to a program like Sibelius or Finale, it's best to export as a .mid type 1 file, not XML.

First of all, if your piece has more than 23 staves you won't be able to export all of the music as XML.   Also, if you export as XML the graphic inaccuracies will be exported too, so you'll have to edit them in your notation program.  With a MIDI file export,  the MIDI data will export accurately.  You'll still have to do some editing, but there's less chance of errors cropping up than with XML.   

In perfect conditions, I'd use XML upon export, but we don't have that so I prefer to use MIDI to maintain better rhythmic accuracy.

Jerry

2 hours ago, Tobias said:

Fair point, but there are some simple (maybe?) tweaks only that I am really asking for, not the full on Finale/Sibelius feature set.  To me at this point, the staff implantation is a bit like having a word processor that does not contain all the letters of the alphabet, like 5-6 are missing for some reason.  The musical alphabet contains different note values that can be displayed visually, and it does in CW but only to a point. I guess I dont understand the cutoff point of what is include and what is not. whole notes up to 32nd notes and triplets is included in staff. There are no other tuplets like quintuplets of sixtuplets or polys etc, which I guess is as easy/or hard to process as an eight note for a computer as they are just different number of "ticks".  You can step record these things using ticks and tuplets but they are not able to be displayed correctly which makes editing hard(er). A 16th note quintuplet for example ends up being a group of 4 16th notes with an extra 16th mashed in between.  My question here is if it harder to display those than triplets or eights, or is it just that CW decided to stop where they did for some reason?  

I am ignorant about how difficult and/or time consuming it would be to expand the visual vocabulary a bit to be more complete. Could be it is a real pain. 

 

I have no idea whether programming the staff view to include 32note triplets, tied triplets, dotted triplets, etc.  is quite doable and the will just isn't there, or whether it's a very difficult programming problem.  I do know that the original code for the staff view is quite old so I suspect it's probably quite  a complex job.  But there's good news:  The display of these events has no impact on MIIDI precision upon playback.  If you program tied 32nd notes or dotted 16th note triplets, you'll get exactly that on playback.   When I export a .mid file into Sibelius it's not a big problem to edit and clarify the notation.

The other good news is that even though Cakewalk doesn't display 64th or 128th notes, the fact is they are not often used, at least not nearly as often and 32nd and 16th notes.  So, the workaround is this:  if you're working on a piece that suddenly requires 64th notes, simply double the tempo and write them as 32nd notes.  Or, leave the tempo as it is, and when you export the file to a program like Sibelius, correct the notation there.  I know it's not perfect, but I'll take the limitations and imperfections of Sonar over every other DAW on the market because of all the things that Sonar is that other DAWS are not.

Jerry

1 hour ago, DeeringAmps said:

Interesting mix of traditional sounds and synths.

Are the voices samples?

As always I'm humbled...

t

Hi Tom,

The voices are from the Roland XP-30, there's a vocal sound set that I had came on a ROM card.  I believe they are probably a mix of samples that were processed by Roland..

Best,

Jerry

I've written this before, but keep in mind that the notation editor in a DAW is primarily about MIDI sequencing and editing.  It's not a scoring program, which is essentially a graphics program.  To prepare a score with parts for performance is not a recording function, it's a publishing tool.  I do all my scores in Sibelius, but I do all my MIDI work in Sonar.  I wouldn't expect, or even want, a DAW to be a publishing tool, better in my opinion to have the DAW for the creation and production of music and the full-fledged graphics program like Sibelius for publishing and final score creation. 

53 minutes ago, Tobias said:

Another vote for staff improvements here!  I do realize a DAW and full fledged scoring apps like Finale/Sibelius are somewhat different and it might not be possible or feasible to get to that level at a reasonable amount of work based on the interest for such a thing from the CW community. I have said before that notation is really the only missing link in CW for me. I can manage to work around it either writing by hand or in other programs like mentioned above, but I would obviously prefer to be able to do it all within CW. But I do realize the implications of including scoring to that level, most likely mega effort involved. 

I hope maybe there could be some updates with  more notation options like different tuplets and polyrythms etc.  But hey,  I am very happy with the  product as is, but one can dream, right ?

19 hours ago, jieva said:

Not many people seem to care about staff view but for me it is really important, especially for writing orchestral stuff for games and films etc.  Cakewalk can do almost anything except place a note where you want it.  After years and years of it being fine someone decided to remove the snap (and indeed the note values at one point).  I have decided to migrate to reaper.  It has been a bit of a struggle but once you get the hang of it then I can do most things there now.  I would come back to cakewalk if staff view had snap.  I also work withing a group of people and that means that we will all switch.

I appreciate the tremendous effort that goes into some of the latest features but in reality I would not use the arranger view and while being able to visually see changes to a wave in a clip when you apply envelopes is tremendous bit of engineering it does not change the fact that I can't enter the notes on time.  I could use the piano roll for maybe 2 instruments at a time but that is so hard compared to looking at a full score of instruments and moving individual notes around or seeing  where instruments are in conflict etc.  

I really don't know why Bandlab don't say anything at all about it or seem to grasp that it is important for some of us.

I am thinking of doing some youtube vids of my experience of converting over to reaper and how to do some of the things in reaper that are difficult to find in reaper but easy in cakewalk.  Such things as assigning a midi channel to a track or working out how to do the routing of a track so that it resembles the synth rack, bouncing audio, splitting and joining clips (Items in Reaper) etc

 

 

 

I bet if the staff view were given as much attention as other aspects of the program, many musicians who abandoned Cakewalk would come right back.  I did after spending 18 months with Digital Performer.  Cakewalk is the most underrated DAW on the market, it is as powerful as any other DAW, ergonomically superior to the other DAWs I've worked with (Cubase, Reaper, DP, and a demo of Pro Tools)  and makes complex operations easy and simply, but not so simple that precision and detail are sacrificed.  Being in the education market, I would think the notation editor would be of supreme importance--regardless of how many musical styles don't depend upon or use notation, the fact is that it's going to be around for a  long time and scoring to picture, classical music, complex arrangements and other styles of music are going to employ notation in one way or another.  Sonar is also beautiful to look at; I've worked in Cakewalk since 1991 and still am excited to be looking at and working in the program.  It's solid as a rock on Windows 10. 

I left Sonar because of the staff view, but after using DP, the staff view in Sonar has much that is more to my liking.  I often write for lots of instruments and I write complex, long pieces.    DP's editor is set up to imitate an 8.5x11 piece of music paper, which is fine for short works with few instruments.  But Cakewalk's notation is more like an arranger's pad, it's much easier to scroll through pieces with hundreds of measures and I can see much more music in one screenful, horizontally speaking, and vertically, the number of staves I can see at once is larger than DPs (23 vs 18).  And the event list--just having color coded MIDI events as Cakewalk does makes it so much easier to see what's going on.  Tiny text and no color coding is really hard on the eyes... 

Jerry

2 hours ago, msmcleod said:

In the next release, the staff view will respect the global snap setting for note positioning. The note duration settings will remain unchanged.

In other words,  you'll be able to independently set the note duration and the snap positioning. 

Hi msmcleod,

that would be really great, thanks.  I also hope the other staff view issue, which is being able to right-click to get the editing menu is restored so that CTRL doesn't have to be held down at the same time...

Jerry

www.jerrygerber.com

From the album Number 11: The Path
Scored for VSL Orchestral Cube and the following synths: Roland XP-30, Native Instruments Massive, Cakewalk Rapture & Virsyn Tera.

PLAY

Really enjoyed listening to this song.. Straightforward, nice guitar part, your voice is easy on the ears!

Jerry

1 hour ago, DeeringAmps said:

As always Jerry a pure delight!
A question, did you write the piece for the poetry, or just select a piece that fit it?

Once again thanks for sharing.

t

 

Hi Tom,

I chose 12 poems for an album I did a while back.  I composed music for each of the poems.  I started another all vocal album this year but due to Covid-19, I can't bring singers and narrators into the studio to record, so I'm working on a new symphony until I can bring people into to the studio.

Thanks again for the kind comments!

Best,

Jerry

From the album In Praise of Poets

PLAY

Jerry

3 hours ago, Lynn said:

Outstanding!  I was mesmerized, as I always am by your offerings.  Your skills and taste are beyond reproach, and you raise the bar yet again.  Can't wait to listen again.

Hi Lynn,

Well, I am glad there a some people who get my music and like it.  I think composers like me, who work in the virtual medium but don't write pop-like music, are in the minority.  Thanks for your comments!

Jerry

This track appears on my album In Praise of Poets

PLAY

Jerry

6 hours ago, jieva said:

No - The notes don't snap at all.  They seem set at 32nd positions.  The notation looks fine but the timing is hit and miss.

 

Yes, this is correct.  No matter what note value is chosen, the snap function is always hit or miss.  I find the workaround is to make the staves bigger, this helps.  It used to be that when you choose, say, an eighth note, the snap would follow the eighth note and snap into place at the place where you want it to.    Does Bandlab read these comments?  

This issue and the issue where we have to press CTRL-right click to call up the context menu for MIDI editing should be repaired.  We should be able to call up the menu just by a right-click, which requires only one hand rather than two...

Jerry

7 hours ago, jieva said:

Please please please can we also have snap back in the staff view it drives me crazy without it

That would be the best thing that could happen for the staff view.

Both methods have their advantages.  For accuracy I also prefer exporting type 1 .mid files.   But for clarity of notation that requires less editing, XML works well .  But since I cannot find a way to export more than 18 tracks (the maximum allowed to view at one time in the staff view) I'll just stick with .mid file exports....

Thanks,

Jerry

Does anyone know if it's possible to export all the MIDI tracks in a file via XML?   I'm finding that I can only export the tracks that are visible in the notation editor, and the limit is 18 tracks.  I'm working on a piece that has 36 MIDI tracks and haven't figured out a way to export all of them at once.  I thought I had done this before, but I forgot how I did it, if I did it at all.

Thanks!

Jerry

9 hours ago, DeeringAmps said:

As always Jerry, you define what can be done orchestrally, (spell check tells me that's not a word) within a DAW electronically.

Thanks once again for sharing.

t

I believe "orchestrally" is definitely a real word, regardless of what the dictionary says. 

Yes, but not for this piece.  I use FM8, Massive and Kontakt quite often.  I still find FM8 very useful for many different situations.  In this track, there's only samples of orchestral instruments.

Jerry

On 4/27/2020 at 9:33 AM, DeeringAmps said:

The Muse tapped me on the shoulder Friday Morning...

COCKYWOMBLE

Just a note of warning: may contain what some might consider Leftanista sentiments.
If you are easily offended, maybe take a pass.
This was "quick and dirty", but all crits are welcomed and much appreciated.

tom

Very good!  and very true!    The "president" is an insane, pathologically lying buffoon.  

Great job!

Jerry

From the album Rebel Planet

PLAY

Jerry

Thanks Bjorn and Mark.

Glad you liked listening..

3 hours ago, Wookiee said:

Nice composition @jsg, what did you use for this some interesting sounds. Mix is really nice and balanced on the Adam's.

Hi Wookie,

The piece is scored for 8 instances of softsynths:

2 instances of FM8

2 instances of Rapture

2 instances of Massive

2 instances of Tera

No samples or orchestral instruments....

Jerry

18 hours ago, DeeringAmps said:

Well Jerry you definitely set the "bar" for orchestration on the forum.
I'm not good with genres so I'll just say electronica? Is that right.
Those who do this need to have a listen and see hear how its done.

I would make a comment on the recurring "voice" in the left can, but I'm never able to really
pull off humor in this context; so I'll just leave that alone...

Thanks for sharing!

t

Hey Tom,

I guess electronica is close enough.    I know that the timbre you're referring to does have a kind of "bodily function" sound ? !  If it makes somebody laugh, that's fine with me!

Jerry

From the album Waves

This is a short piece for synths only, no orchestral samples in this one...

PLAY

Jerry
www.jerrygerber.com

True, the time saved, only a second or two, is definitely not worth having an unstable system.  I found that 2 of the 3 problems I was having are now resolved simply by turning off fast startup.

The problem of Sonar getting stuck in memory also seems to be resolved by turning fast startup off, but not 100% sure,  I'll know more in a week or so but so far so good.