Craig Reeves

Quick question. Does anybody else have issues sometimes with bounced audio containing pops and artifacts, particularly on big transients? I've noticed this problem consistently with a lot of projects but it doesn't happen all the time so it's not the easiest problem to reproduce. Anybody else having this issue or had it before? Pops, clicks and artifacts tend to persist whether I slow-bounce or fast-bounce.

3 hours ago, Noel Borthwick said:

@Craig Reeves @jon sasor [cakewalk] and several others have already replied to your original post and suggested resolutions.
We also received your recent ticket 488179 about quick grouping and will consider it for a future update. Thanks for that.

Many if your issues are relatively minor workflow related teething pains rather than major defects. As such could you please retitle your post to something more appropriate like "Need assistance with AudioSnap" or something more appropriate, since as it stands it looks a bit like clickbait? 
Thanks in advance.

Will do!

22 hours ago, Promidi said:

You can assign a CAL script to a keybinding.

I'm aware. But Legato.cal doesn't work very well and very often fails to do what it is supposed to do.

20 minutes ago, Craig Anderton said:

Real-world example: I went to open Cakewalk a few minutes ago, and a flashing window prevented me from logging in. I couldn't open preferences. The program was totally unuseable.

It turned out the problem was the Generic ASIO Low-Latency Driver .dll (which has been the subject of many frustrated forum posts) that's in the Steinberg ASIO folder. It apparently got put in there when I re-installed Cubase after switching computers. I renamed the .dll...problem solved, Cakewalk opens.

Cakewalk's fault? Steinberg's? Windows? The RealTek chip grabbing on to the driver and not letting go? I have no idea.

Another real-world example was when someone from Cakewalk was about to give a Sonar presentation on his laptop. Sonar was crashing like crazy, doing strange things, and scaring the crap out of him as he rehearsed. It turned out that he had always used a TASCAM interface with his laptop, but had installed ASIO4ALL in case the interface got lost, stolen, crushed by aliens, whatever. Just having ASIO4ALL installed on his computer created a conflict with the TASCAM ASIO drivers he had specified under Preferences in Sonar. As soon as he uninstalled ASIO4ALL, everything worked again. This isn't to start an ASIO4ALL discussion, I know it can work...I'm just the messenger, don't shoot me.

And don't get me started on graphics cards, the gratuitous "hi-def" audio drivers they install, and the never-ending graphics card updates that are issued solely to produce 0.005% faster frame rates in Call of Duty...

LOL that last line.  Yeah I feel you. There have been times where I have unfairly blamed Cakewalk myself, sometimes on here for all to see. Anytime that happens, I will usually make sure to indicate where I'm wrong. For instance, I was under the impression that Cakewalk's audio engine was slow because while using it, I found my CPU usage was higher than it should have been for a similar project I had open in Ableton Live. Well, it turns out what was slowing things down was that I had Streamlabs open and forgot to close it. As soon as I did, Cakewalk ran perfectly.

Basically, a process that achieves the same functionality as the Legato.cal script, but actually works on a consistent basis. Pretty common in other DAWs and I don't believe would be a difficult feature to add. I use Legato all the time and I'm sure others do as well. Hell, we have Retrograde, I think we can include Legato, lol.

13 minutes ago, solarlux said:

Yes and Cakewalk now is in new Home and new priorities and main priority is bug fixes but Developers need more info than video where bug showed. 

I've never been told by any of the staff people on this forum that my videos are unclear. My videos aren't unclear to the people that actually watch them.

6 minutes ago, Lord Tim said:

I will say this though, nobody should feel like they shouldn't be able to bring up problems with CbB here at all. CbB most certainly does have bugs, and certain environmental settings can expose them or make it look like it's a CbB thing. Nobody should feel like this (or any) software is above criticism just because someone else isn't experiencing the problem. It's never going to be better if we just stick our head in the sand, right?

Well people do very often feel like they can't bring up problems with CbB without being vilified for it. It's a serious problem and has been for a long time. As I said I've used Cakewalk for 21 years. I don't need to prove my sincerity to nobody...

2 minutes ago, Lord Tim said:

 

I'm not really defending or condoning anything here, just to be clear - everyone's post and the tone of their post is their own. But the point he was making kind of is correct, regardless of how the tone is presented. 

But again, the videos can only go so far. That's showing that something isn't working correctly, not WHY. This is a peer-to-peer forum and we're lucky enough for the devs to stick their heads in fairly frequently and help when they can, but nothing we say here gets put into the system unless a dev happens to see it and log it.  Just looking at the bug list Noel was talking about from the last 3 years, if there's been thousands of long standing SONAR bugs address since then, think about how much is in the backlog they're getting to. If something isn't in the system and being allocated and prioritised, you don't know of anyone has logged your issue from a video on a user forum at all. Maybe it has? You just don't know.

Again, sorry if anything I've posted is coming across as antagonistic or patronising at all - it's really not the intent. I just think there's other avenues you need to go down before you up-end your desk and write stuff off.

There are specific instructions in the videos on how to reproduce the bugs. It isn't just "this isn't working", but I'm pointing out exactly what one can do to bring about the bug himself.  Again, you keep mentioning "why" but knowing WHY a bug exists is the developer's job once they go through the code and find the bug. Everything starts with REPRODUCING the bug, THEN you pinpoint the cause. You're putting the cart before the horse, Tim. And @bdickens was literally accusing me of just coming on here and whining and not reporting bugs, when I literally put videos up SHOWING exactly what the bug is and how to reproduce it. The Bakers have fixed bugs I've reported in this manner and have never had an issue with the way I report bugs. He clearly did not watch the videos, so there is no point in you defending what he said.

And it is indeed true that the Bakers have addressed many bugs. I acknowledge that. I wouldn't be here if they just didn't care at all. As I mentioned before, I left other DAWs to come here for a reason and I would not have posted what I did in the OP if I didn't think anyone cared. I have WAY, WAY, WAY more issues with Ableton but you don't see me over there now do you?

4 minutes ago, solarlux said:

You need also project file and system specs, : )

As I mentioned before, that's not necessary if the developers can reproduce the error themselves. That means it isn't specific to one's system. Stuff like that only really needs to be done if others can't reproduce the problem. If everybody no matter what system they're on can reproduce the error, that means it doesn't matter what system they're on. Noel nor any of the developers have ever asked me to provide details on my system. But they have asked me to provide instructions on how to reproduce the problem, which I provide.

It is generally poor form to ask someone to provide their system specs before even trying to reproduce the problem yourself. 

9 minutes ago, Lord Tim said:

There's nothing wrong with venting when things aren't working for you - we all do it - and it's certainly fair enough. I've seen you post enough stuff around the forums to definitely not discount what you're saying as a troll, or the rest of us just sticking our fingers in our ears and going "lalala not happening, this guy doesn't know what he's doing."  I believe you're genuinely having some issues there, but I also think  that because you're frustrated that you're not taking all of the steps to fix stuff either. Not having a dig or trying to be insulting here, apologies if it comes off that way.

There's been a few guys with some horrible problems that a lot of us haven't seen before that weren't able to be reproduced, but if you have a scan through the product release threads, because they were reported and documented correctly (not just videos, but environmental settings such as hardware, drivers, installed software, etc.) then it was sorted out - you'll even see Noel mention how he's hopped on to a Teamviewer session to to run tests to get to the bottom of it all, and yes - sometimes this HAS turned out to be an obscure bug or something else that's exposing a problem that most of us aren't seeing. I don't know any other DAW company that does anything like that without charging you a crazy premium for it.

Showing the result of something only helps so much. "Check it out, when I press Alt+A the entire screen turns purple - this is buggy!!" only shows that - yes, that's really weird and looks like a bug - but not WHY. I think this is what @bdickens was getting it - if you don't work with support to get to the bottom of it and just complain about the outcome, how could they know what the issue is?

That sndfile.dll Waves issue I mentioned was a good one. On first glance, CbB is rubbish because it's not able to copy over a file properly and you have to tell it to skip a file during installation. Looks like a bug or horrendous UI programming. But in actual fact, it was a bug in a specific product that is only triggered by a certain sequence of events, and it it's actually getting fixed by the people who can actually do anything about it - the CbB team have no control over it.

You see what I'm getting at?  You have real problems there (outside of certain shortcomings with things that need to be looked at, eg: Audiosnap, CAL, etc.) but whatever is going on in your environment won't get fixed if all we see is the result, and not able to get to the cause. Like I said, I'd be gone if my system was anything like you're experiencing, and if CbB was the app I would really prefer to use, I'd be making Support absolutely sick of my name in less than a week.  

Which is exactly why I post videos on how to reproduce the bug. Notice that I never actually say that I am CERTAIN it is a bug. That's the whole point of providing instructions on how to reproduce the error. Because if others are unable to reproduce the bug, then it is something local to my system or user error that is the cause. For instance, the bug with quick-group latch automation I have tried on four different systems and multiple different versions of Cakewalk. I was able to reproduce the problem. But you cannot dismiss the problem I'm having as specific to something I'm doing wrong until it is demonstrated that others cannot reproduce the error. 

And as far as finding out why a bug exists, you don't do that until you have tried reproducing the error. 

And I honestly can't believe you're defending @bdickens either. Dismissing someone expressing legitimate concerns about Cakewalk as "bitching" is toxic. And he was "getting at" anything but being an a-hole. I've seen some of his past posts. He's like that toward others, not just me.

3 minutes ago, bdickens said:

So, have you submitted any bug reports?

The developers are the ones who need to reproduce them, not all the members of the public forum.

But of course, as a software developer yourself, you already know this.

Yes I have. Where do you think those videos came from? I didn't just make them today. Had you actually watched them you'd know they were dated in the past. And as I'm sure you already know, anyone could watch those videos and reproduce the bugs, whether the person is a developer or not. 

21 minutes ago, solarlux said:

Need to reproduce these bugs for Bakers than they maybe can fix them. But about CAL scripst its not bug but CAL scripts aren't developed and abandoned and will be better sulotion in future.

I provide videos specifically showing how to reproduce the bugs. I really do not know how much clearer I can be in that regard because I'm literally showing you all step by step how to reproduce the bugs. I can't do anything about it if you all choose not to watch them.

24 minutes ago, bdickens said:

So in other words, no.

 

I'm not attacking you. I asked a simple, direct question to which you replied with a really long winded bit of defensive sniveling about fanboys and gaslighting and whatnot.

 

Plenty of people come on here with issues, ask for help, and get it. Sometimes within minutes. Go ask for help on some other forums and you get crickets.

 

If you put half as much effort into communicating with the developers as you do whining on youtube, you might get some of this stuff fixed.

I'm not going to argue with you if you are not going to even read my posts. Accusing someone of "bitching" is not a "simple" or "direct" question. It is also a stupid-as-hell question as you could clearly see in my original post, I demonstrated no less than three specific issues with videos showing step-by-step on how to reproduce them. It is your problem if you're too lazy to watch them. 

I do not "whine on Youtube" as I do not post Youtube videos publicly. The videos in my post are and have been unlisted as they are specifically for this forum so people can view  how to reproduce the bugs. You do not need to tell me about troubleshooting software, as software development is my trade by day. Perhaps had you actually watched the videos you would know I was doing exactly what it is you accuse me of not doing: demonstrating bugs and giving specifics on how to reproduce them.  I have also done this in past posts. 

4 hours ago, bdickens said:

So, do you document things & send bug reports or just bitch?

This is exactly what I was talking about in my post and also the reason why many people who have problems don't "bitch", they'll just find something else to use, which is probably at least one of the reasons Cakewalk did poor business (along with poor marketing) when it wasn't free. Most people don't "bitch", they just use something else, and as you can see I literally just got finished documenting every one of the bugs I brought up not only this time, but in the past as well. Every one of those videos I posted are videos I have posted before on this forum. I do not just come on here and "bitch", I give full details on how to reproduce the bugs, but I STILL get flack from at least one person every time I do. The problem is that people like you don't actually read the full context of a post before commenting.

There is a history of people expressing their frustration with this DAW but then getting attacked by people like yourself for telling it like it is. I suspect this is why some of these bugs don't actually end up getting addressed, because folks don't want to deal with the bullying, the gaslighting and the attacks for bringing up legitimate problems. Because rather than simply addressing the fact that yes, X issue is indeed a bug I was able to successfully reproduce and therefore needs to be addressed, people will either literally tell you that you're imagining it (gaslighting), tell you it's not their problem, or tell you to "quit bitching". That needs to end if these problems are going to get addressed.

I want you to notice that hardly any of the bugs I brought up have even been addressed in this thread. All I get is "well, it's not my problem because I don't care about X feature", or "Cakewalk works fine for me". As Noel mentioned, people use Cakewalk for many different reasons. If all you're doing is tracking vocals or guitars, you're not going to run into problems with VST instruments or MIDI. If all you do is compose film and game music, it is unlikely you will run into problems with the Matrix, etc. I produce R&B and pop music, so I'm probably not going to run into articulation map issues because I don't use the articulation map often. 

I've never said that Cakewalk doesn't work at all. I said compared to the other DAWs I use, it is much buggier than those DAWs. It crashes far more often, and has way more broken features. That is not to say that Pro Tools doesn't have bugs too, or Ableton. They do. But they are far more stable and have far fewer broken features that don't work. As I've said multiple times already, I still prefer Cakewalk to both those other DAWs, but that doesn't mean there aren't areas I feel Cakewalk is inferior. 

The reason I single Cakewalk's problems out is because I'm on Cakewalk's forum.

We have to face the reality that Cakewalk's future is uncertain, and I want to continue to use this DAW. I actually want Cakewalk to survive because I love it. But we have to be honest and live with the fact that it is not good enough that Cakewalk be AS GOOD as Studio One or Cubase, it has to be BETTER. Because in order to catch up you have to be going faster. That's a fact. Cakewalk is already 5 laps behind in a 30 lap race. And Cakewalk has the potential to be that good. It's only real flaw are the bugs.

I'm sorry I'm just super frustrated and in a bad mood. All I wanted to do was some basic MIDI sequencing and ran into a litany of bugs. 

6 minutes ago, Noel Borthwick said:

Nobody likes bugs interrupting their workflow but if you think that other programs dont have similar bugs you likely havent used them for very long periods of time or your workflow doesnt expose similar issues. 
Regarding fixing bugs, it has been an utmost priority for at least the last 3 years. Have you looked at the changelog? We’ve fixed over a thousand issues besides all the optimizations and new features.
We are a small team and we do the best we can. Cakewalk is an enormously complex application and can be used in thousands of different ways so a bug that affects one user may never be seen by another. This is the main reason why one person may have flawless performance and another might not. If you take the effort to provide detailed steps most of the time we are able to resolve issues rapidly. CAL is an ancient legacy feature that we hardly ever look at so I’m not surprised that there may be a few issues there. Ultimately we plan on replacing it. We’ll look at the other issues.

 

I know you guys are trying, which is why I am here and no longer use Ableton as my main DAW. They've rested on their laurels over there and really aren't the least bit concerned about actually making their DAW actually good. It's claim to fame is that it is really well marketed and comes with a bunch of stock plugins out of the box (and live performance features, whatever). 

I use two other DAWs, Pro Tools and Ableton daily. They indeed have their bugs, but not as bad as Cakewalk.  Those DAWs have their own severe problems. I'll be the first to say that. Pro Tools is awful and I don't like Ableton that much for large projects. Trust and believe, those DAWs have other severe problems which is why I don't use them anymore as my main DAW.

With regard to Legao, why they don't just have a Legato option under Process is beyond me. Retrograde but no Legato...oversight.

1 minute ago, solarlux said:

Agree about Audio Snap it should be fixed. I know all these things will be fixed if Bakers informed about this. This DAW will become best DAW

The sad thing is that in many ways it already is the best. There are GREAT qualities about Cakewalk. It's just frustrating seeing so much potential being wasted because of bugs that have been around for years yet still haven't been fixed.

But everytime I mention anything about it people will just say "go back to Ableton" or whatever. People who claim to be so pro-Cakewalk telling somebody who left another DAW who came to Cakewalk to "go back" to the DAW they came from. Who does that?

3 minutes ago, timboalogo said:

Dude, if Cakewalk doesn't agree with you, then you absolutely should use something else. Go to Abelton, if that's what you need.

Cakewalk works for me, and has for more than 15 years, especially on the last album I recorded with it.

Timbo

PS Access was probably denied because you still had the application open (and therefore the dll) in some form. That's usually how the error happens.

Cakewalk clearly doesn't work for a lot of people which why hardly anyone uses it anymore. I want to see that change. Cakewalk has a ton of potential and I don't like seeing it go to waste. And I've used Cakewalk for 21 years so I'm in the same boat. Literally the only real tragic flaw of Cakewalk for decades has been its instability and numerous bugs.

I can say all kinds of negative things about America, but that doesn't mean I don't love America and want to move to another country. I hate when people say stuff like this. Nobody ever addresses these kinds of problems and anybody who expresses legitimate concerns with this product is bullied into leaving. This kind of behavior isn't helpful to Cakewalk.

Cakewalk is the buggiest major DAW and it's not even close. There is a reason Cakewalk failed as a commercial product even against more limited DAWs like Reaper and FL Studio and I can't imagine this not being at least one the reasons. It's unacceptable and embarrassing.

I get that's it's free but it was actually WORSE in the past when it wasn't free.

When Cakewalk actually works it is excellent. It just doesn't work very often, and MANY features are just plain broken.

Just focus on bug fixes for the next year. Seriously. And I don't say any of this out of malice. I say this because I genuinely want Cakewalk to do better. Consider this tough love. I've used this DAW since 2000 and I've spent a lot of money on Cakewalk and their products. If I didn't care or preferred some other DAW I wouldn't be here.

But it feels often that NOTHING ever works right in this DAW. I literally find a new frustrating bug every single time I use it. Using this DAW is an exhausting experience all too often. It's just not fun anymore. That is why people left this DAW in droves. It doesn't seem as though any of these bugs ever get fixed despite being reported multiple times by multiple people. 

I've compared Cakewalk to Ableton Live 10 and Pro Tools which I'm more or less equally proficient in. Ableton certainly has its problems and I do think Cakewalk despite my complaints is the better program for my needs. I've also compared it to Pro Tools. Pro Tools is TRASH. By far the most overrated DAW on the planet. Workflow is awful, lacks several key features for production and Avid is downright abysmal to deal with....and it's overpriced (as is Ableton Suite). Pro Tools is an awful program and I only use it when I have to. 

But the MAJOR advantage Ableton and Pro Tools have as far as I'm concerned is that THEY WORK. They're reliable. Limited in many ways? Yes. But IT JUST WORKS. It doesn't crash, no new sudden bugs I've never seen before, no oddities that have been long reported that haven't been addressed. Trust me, if you think I'm rough on Cakewalk, I'm worse to Ableton and I've pretty much all but given up on Avid.

These are just a few issues. Suddenly, Legato.cal doesn't work right anymore. Instead, it just shortens the note lengths to 64th notes instead of connects them no matter what setting (whether it be 10 or 100, doesn't matter) I use. This didn't happen until today. You really never know what you're going to get with this DAW. Video below:

So I think, "OK, let's try re-installing Cakewalk to see if that will fix the problem". And in pure Cakewalk fashion, I run into yet ANOTHER bug trying to simply reinstall the thing. BTW, no other DAW has this problem (which is a common theme with Cakewalk, which may be why they're still in business and Cakewalk is not). 

No other choice but to choose "Skip this file (not recommended)". It didn't fix the Legato problem, btw. *sigh*....this freaking DAW...

Quick-group latch automation STILL doesn't work properly and has been a bug since at least SONAR X3, despite reporting of it being detailed multiple times in how to reproduce the error. Video below of this error and how to reproduce: 

AudioSnap....oh boy....we all know that's broken. Here's just one example...

Workflow issues abound with regard to cutting, copying and pasting....

At this point I'm just honestly at my wits end. What's even worse is that very often bugs can't even be reproduced because they only exist in a particular project (the dreaded Cakewalk per-project bugs). Bugs that are limited to a particular project, which is strange. I can't even begin to tell you how many times I've said "Welp, looks like [insert feature here] isn't working in this project for some reason. It's just frustrating, kills creativity and is downright infuriating.

I promise I'm not trying to be nasty. I'm really not. But the truth really needs to be said, because the reality, and you all know I'm right about this, is that all too often, it just seems obvious that the only people who still love Cakewalk are those who have not used anything else. The minute they try a Studio One or a Logic or whatever they see all the flaws Cakewalk has. Well I'm honestly tired of seeing that. I want Cakewalk to do better. Maybe if Cakewalk does, they might get picked up by a big company and be back in business again. But until I start seeing different I can't really recommend this DAW to others and at this point the only reason I even still use it is because I am too busy to learn anything else and I favor over the other DAWs I know well (Pro Tools and Ableton).

18 hours ago, bdickens said:

Yeah. Because we all know Pro Fools never crashes....

Pro Tools is TRASH. It is not a good DAW. So many aspects of Pro Tools and the workflow is extremely outdated. The audio editing features aren't THAT much better than Cakewalk, but there are so many things that are worse. I only use it because that's where recording sessions come from as they are usually recorded in a commercial studio that uses ProTools HD. I'm proficient in Pro Tools and Ableton as I use them both daily.

Ableton is good but my God it is overrated AF for production. the UI is dated, lacks several key features other DAWs have and the piano roll just plain sucks (it's per-clip rather than per-track.....Cakewalk abandoned that with SONAR 1, c'mon Ableton...). And no comping AND NO REAL STEP RECORDING (jeezus, Ableton what gives). Warp is cool but Cakewalk's timestretching, while certainly no where near as good, can get the job done most of the time if you know how to use it. I honestly think the only reason Ableton is so popular is because it comes with SO much out of the box, and not only that, famous people use it, and that really came from the live performance features...Ableton is second to none when it comes to live performance no doubt. I know Ableton very very well, Cakewalk is better for production all-around. I have not used Logic in many years so I can't speak on Logic. 

That said, Cakewalk is buggier than both those DAWs.

1 hour ago, Noel Borthwick said:

If its crashing once per session I can almost guarantee you that its a plugin related problem. Have you submitted crash dumps so we can verify the cause?

I have not but will definitely start if that helps! 

16 hours ago, sjoens said:

A lot of us experience crashes. We either don't tell anyone or get bashed over the head for being stupid when we do. 😕

Either way, I've never gone a day over the last 20 years using Sonar/Cakewalk on various platforms when it doesn't crash for some unknown reason.

I've spent entire days trying to figure out why only to have it working fine again on it's own.

It needs no reason. Daily crashes. Monthly blue screens. May be 2 reason why the professional world hasn't taken it seriously.

I don't blame it totally because bad memory, USB, and other external factors play a hand.

 

Beyond crashing, it loves to hang in memory and not open because I have a standalone VSTi already open. Closing the VSTi and reopening CbB/Sonar does not work. The entire system has to be shut down and rebooted first. 😕😕

 

I still prefer it over other DAWs!

GarageBand is probably the most stable DAW in existence. That doesn't mean it's the best. 

On 1/26/2021 at 3:07 PM, Rico Belled said:

Tha'ts the completely opposite experience from mine. Cakewalk is eminently stable here, as long as I don't use third party plugins, some of which are just badly coded. I've done tons of sessions at studios with repeatedly crashing Protools rigs, my buddy's Logic requires a good 5 to 6 reboots every time I spend a few hours there. Ableton is like Cakewalk for me: as long as I stay away from certain 3rd party plugs, it's quite stable and reliable.

 

R

Cakewalk crashes at least once every session. Sometimes multiple times in one session. I use Ableton on just a regular of a basis on project just as big and it hasn't crashed in weeks.

I swear Cakewalk would be the best DAW in the world by far if it didn't crash so often and didn't have so many bugs. It really is the smartest and intuitive workflow there is overall....when it works. It certainly hangs and crashes far more than Pro Tools and Ableton do, but it's certainly better than both those DAWs in many other respects.