Misha

With unfortunate BL's current position and unwillingness to provide clarity on perpetual licenses, I want to start preparing an offline backup system with all of my Cakewalk/Sonar projects. I am sorry if it was asked before, just want to make sure it is achievable the way I intend to do this.

I have an older Thinkpad (420s, i7 Win 10).  While these are dated laptops, they are built like tanks and parts for them are abundant... In any case, the idea is to install last pre- Bandlab's 2017 Sonar, activate it on this machine and put it away for the time being. Two questions please.

1) Once activated, will it require future re-activation using BL's server feedback on that laptop? 

2)When this older (2017) Sonar "activates", does it use a Hard Drive ID or a System ID?  

Thank you.

Glenn,

neat spoken word  tune. Fun time signature. Listens well.

Glenn, thank you for your time!

I specifically didn't want to mention BIAB approach for two reasons. Likely many people here are unaware of BIAB abilities and  #2 is... I have used this method of extracting BIAB's  MIDI notation and revoicing  to winds myself. They have a decent library for some wind/brass stuff, but mostly are soloist, not rhythm based. If I had a single example to give from BIAB, it would be their Electro flutes (Super Midi track). Their Irish whistle Real tracks are phenomenal, but a bit too ethnic.

 EZK Organ... Thank you!! Will definitely look into it. 

So strange that in decades nobody took the liberty of creating a decent non-classical / non-cinematic  commercial MIDI package(s) for winds.  

P.S. Yeah, I am a big fan of mr. Anderson, but things I am looking for are much simpler

mettelus,

I kind of get what you are saying... But Piano->Flute conversion usually sounds very cheesy.  Of course if there are MIDI packs made specifically for winds that could be used with EZ-keys, that would be another story and it would solve my request. However, I could not find any commercial/pro played flute&winds MIDI loop packs. 

Hi Folks.

For a long time I was searching for a phrase based plugin that could deliver something like EZ keys, but for woodwinds / flutes. I am not interested in audio loop packs that have fixed key or phrases that have little flexibility.  The thing I am looking for has to re-harmonize phrasing based on midi chord track, similar to EZ-keys, U-jam, NI session guitars, Band in a Box or hardware arrangers. There are Bases, Piano, Guitars, Strings, but seems almost nothing as far as woodwinds. 

There only three wind "phrase based" plugins that I found that would do auto re-harmonization based on chord track:  some items by Kirk Hunter, Action Woodwinds and Sonokinetic.

While these three sound great, they are mainly for Classical / Cinematic music. I am looking for something usable for Pop, Rock,  Pop jazz, and similar genres. My keyboard skills are very rudimental. I just can't record something that would sound decent enough. Mainly looking for phrases for rhythm parts, licks, accents. Nothing extraordinary, but so they are played as a musician of that instrument would.  I have enough "sounds", and while I am aware of MIDI limitations+Winds,  MIDI only plugin would work too.

P.S. Those who know Band In a Box... Their Real Tracks are the best example what I am looking for, I have them all. While they have a good selection of brass, woodwinds and flutes have very little presence.

Would appreciate any meaningful input.

Thank you!

Jonathan,

my case study is simple. There were several statements offering sprinkles of hope concerning licenses over the course of past 13 months made by Bakers and those who reply from support@bandlab.com - which leads,  I believe to same "form" Ashwin provided.  Even as close as two days ago.

Even if you have no authority to disclose certain things, just for a minute put yourself in shoes of someone who have been with Cakewalk for many years, despite all turbulences. Those, who patiently waited for 13 months for some kind of a fair deal, or any kind of purchasing options besides renting software...and got nothing.

As of now I view Cakewalk by BL as legacy product that will likely disabled at one point in the next 2 or so years, perhaps longer, but nowhere close to "decades" promised in original 2018 letter. And the new Sonar is only a rentable piece of software.  Pretty much a dead end for somebody who wants a long term solution and/or certainty. But worse of all, there is no clear statement (after 13 months!) by BL if those who are still waiting, should wait longer or this is the only new future for Sonar that is here to stay. I don't think it's fair to keep many people suspended in air in such manner.  

I will be forever grateful to Cakewalk/Sonar, but subscription is not a path I will take, even if it's offered for free.  

Not subscribing, even at $1 a month, or even free for that matter, unless last version after 12 months paid subscription period is granted, or other licensing options are on the table.  I would rent a movie, but not a tool I intend to use on regular basis. 

I voted, with generic contact form Ashwin provided. However, even the Ashwin  wording: "we'll be able to compile", hints that their request to "for the relevant team" will also likely be generic.  

Two other "public" BL emails I think worth of considering are:

General:

INFO@BANDLABTECHNOLOGIES.COM

PR:

PRESS@BANDLABTECHNOLOGIES.COM

Halion/Sonic is a great synth, but last version has issues with GM, and there was just simply not enough to justify upgrade. I did use it for trial period. I will stick with 6 for now until/if they fix GM. When they do, I will upgrade.

If you are looking for acoustic virtual instruments (pianos, guitars, winds etc,) it falls short and to my ear sounds dated. The strongest are probably electro keys, synths, arps, classic Yamaha sounds, some ethnic material. It's super easy and fun to layer and mix synths within the plugin.

I feel they could have done much (Much!) more in areas of  UI and workflow in 6+ years from Halion 6.

If you don't have 6 and have no use for GM, it's a very powerful synth that I would personally recommend. If you have 6... Well, choice is yours. 

Helios,

you didn't read the post, but yanked my bit of it. I asked a specific question (Is it safe to assume that Cakewalk will be available for the next 2 years), but was not given a straight  answer. Only partial, watered down version. Which is  "good temporary news" - Just as I mentioned above. If you are that spy worthy, you may also note, that not once I questioned features, looks, stability or effort put by Bakers. 

I just don't buy into praising 6 years of Cakewalk development until clarity of it's long term future and future of Sonar perpetual licenses are made known. It's like this: You live in the house, you presume is yours, but then local government says... It's not really yours. You can live in it...for now, but there is no guarantee that you will live here in 2026. Clarity, is what most want. 

Jonathan,

Thanks for trying. I sincerely hope that this:

" If anything changes, there will be a formal announcement well ahead of time."

will be close to a year vs 3-6 months. 

3 minutes ago, pwal³ said:

he'll never say that, it's not up to the cakewalk team, it's up to bandlab

Educated guess will work.

Jonathan, thanks. I feel better. But please (!!) clarify, if it is safe to assume Cakewalk will work for next 2 years. With this semi-official confirmation, I promise to put the topic to rest.

Reason is simple. If you come up with normal licenses for Sonar within one year, I will gladly purchase it. If not, I will continue writing tunes as I did for a year and then will have whole year to make a transition to something else.  I hope this explains my frustration. Thank you.

Yes, Hybrid version gets you Studio One... to be yours. Nu Sonar unplugs you as soon as your money expire. That was exactly my point.

Then (with S1 and similar) if you feel like some new features give you benefit, you continue to support company, without fear of being left without a tool if/when your money run out.

I've collected enough plugins to keep me occupied for the next three lives, I doubt Sonar (or any DAW for that matter) can surprise me in such way that it will be a decision maker. 

As long as my projects open in pre 2018 Sonar, I will not subscribe. Period. Many of us gave BL a second chance in 2018. Many patiently waited over a year for normal licenses since initial Sonar announcement. Personally, I think it's one sick game they are playing. Zero respect for the people who are holding information hostage, whoever those might be. If no standard licenses are planned in near future (within a year) , it should be made very clear, so users can make informed choices.  You, as a customer supposed to get exited when something you waited for a long time comes out. Unfortunately, this was a totally opposite experience. 

A Cakewalk user of 20 years.

While forum police is actively deleting threads with legitimate concerns, I have spent good 20 minutes following advice of another member to search for Noel B's posts clarifying my question for how long Cakewalk by Bandlab will be available for? Specifically downloading and activating. In search for an answer of discontinuation from this statement by Mortenby Saether:

"CbB will eventually be discontinued as future development and support will transition to the upcoming Cakewalk Sonar release."

The most clear answer I found from about 8 months ago from Noel reads:

"There is no timeline to phase it out currently so it will be around awhile. "

Is there a timeline now,  as Sonar is presumably released? What does "phase it out" means? Stops working, activating, downloading, or just stopping getting updates and will be available same way as legacy products are?

Hope Dies Last

I am not like a bloody dog.  Judging by my avatar, it's predictable that I am a cat lover. But I do despise the philosophy of  when somebody makes certain promises they don't keep, especially considering years spent "building trust",  but even more, cheap talk of bystanders somehow justifying this behavior instead of challenging unfair practice of keeping in the dark most dedicated group. But hey, what do I know. 

3 hours ago, Bristol_Jonesey said:

That's what I would ahve done if I was in charge.

Here we go again. I know several people who used Cakewalk/Sonar for years (decades!) After Gibson swallowed too much than it could chew, they moved to other DAWs and never looked back.  These customers are forever lost and it's all because of greed. 

Bandlab should either keep promise it made in 2018 (I can attach a copy of the letter if some "forgot"), or clarify if it will be subscription only going forward, so people can make their final decisions, manage their time and move on.

https://www.bandlab.com/products/cakewalk

3 hours ago, Mannymac said:

Do we know what the plan is?

That's a $1,000,000 question.

We tried calling for help, crystal ball, voodoo dolls, spells, potions, mirrors, bats, candles, frogs, goats, etc.

It's a great mystery that no one here can solve. As of now, you can rent it for about $180 a year - can't purchase it.

5 hours ago, CSistine said:

I've been fighting with W11 on a new pc lately! IMO it's the worst Windows since a long time! So far I've found only one minor improvement compared to a couple of worsenings. But YMMV!

Did you forget Windows 2000 or 8?  Never ending BSOD's  

11 is OK, once you disable all the nonsense and figure out particular settings. At least... once you do, you can be confident it will last a few good years... unlike the future uncertainty of the  DAW that most of us enjoy.

On 6/23/2024 at 12:19 AM, Cobus Prinsloo said:

Thank you, I'll look into it.

Seems like pressing a single button in Cakewalk to see if works with basic/core project items is easier than editing values in regedit, but hey it's your time and your computer. Hope something will work for you. 

Did you try clicking a single magical FX button in Cakewalk I suggested?  

Cores and ram has little to do with your issues. Seems your specs are sufficient. My new computer has same amount of Ram (32), but less cores as previous. Runs much, much better. Processor, different chipset architecture and I/O bottlenecks mainly are causes of issues you are describing. 

In my view, #1 thing that gets overlooked is you have to set your power scheme to High Performance. Even if you have crapware installed, it should make a difference how Cakewalk runs. Usually it is set to "balanced" by default. 

Did you remove  bloatware that came with new computer? 

One simple test you can do is while in Cakewalk press FX button on upper header panel to disable all VST FX.  If project runs fine with disabled FX, start enabling FX one by one until sick one is found. 

My previous computer was fairly fast, but something in it's processor architecture or chipset would not allow me to use Izotope plugins. And I tried many (many!!!) things trying to make them work.  Nothing helped. I gave up on those plugins. A new computer, which is NOT a gaming computer takes Izotope without any issues. Different architecture made a world of difference.

13 minutes ago, User 905133 said:

Even Cakewalk for MS-DOS let us select the number of times a track would loo p. 

You don't have to convince me. I know   

20 minutes ago, Helios.G said:

I think you're seriously overthinking this.  They're a corporation. 

Nope. I am not overthinking, I am confused. Exactly, because it's corporation it should understand "target" audience. By kiddos I mean somebody who grew up with touchscreens and more intuitive controls for loops, triggering, etc.   There is nothing bad about it, just different. Gorillaz made whole album on ipad decade and a half ago and it's awesome. However Cakewalk/Sonar never appealed much to beatmakers.  To some - yes. Is it capable? Yes.  However, mainstream Cakewalk users seems to be in Pop (traditional), Rock and a few other bread & butter electro/acoustic genres. "Next" looks to be the right starter path for what it seems they (BL) are trying to achieve, but Sonar seems to be a misfit for sub only. 

41 minutes ago, Helios.G said:

You don't want to pay? Don't, find another tool, and make music. 

I want to pay, just not for subscription. Rent-to-own or buy it outright would work just fine.  Unfortunately other tools don't have particular tracking feature that Cakewalk has. I tried most. So it will be a trade-off to adopt to something that I've got used to for many years. 

49 minutes ago, Helios.G said:

At the end of the day if you're on here daily fretting about what a company that doesn't know any of us personally is going to do next, you're not making music. 

Actually, I use Cakewalk on daily basis. That is what is bothering me the most. I am afraid that if I start to deep learn another DAW it will slash many many hours of scarce time I have to write tunes. Spending a few minutes to show my dissatisfaction with how I think BL handled this release, that I (and many others) had high hopes for is not biggie. Collective bargaining had worked in some cases