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daveiv

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    UJAM Sparkle 2 Released

    in Deals

    Posted

    10 hours ago, PavlovsCat said:

    And thanks for the compliment, of course, you know I enjoy conversing with you too.

    Thank you, too!

    10 hours ago, PavlovsCat said:

    Although, I realize I've over indulged in this trip back into the history of virtual guitar plugins and libraries, so my apologies to everyone who is bored.

    I'd happily read if that part of your post was twice the length. :)

    • Thanks 1

    UJAM Sparkle 2 Released

    in Deals

    Posted

    It's always fun to read your posts! :)

    1 hour ago, PavlovsCat said:

    So, yes, RealGuitar was a big leap for virtual guiar it was big for hobbyist musicians;  pros weren't using it for final productions and it did not contain the intricate details that Orange Tree Samples' guitar libraries included from the beginning that made it so innovative and the brilliant scripting, hence why I suggested the name Evolution back in maybe 2008 when Greg started working on a library with a strumming engine.

    This sounds like "Seinfeld" Is Unfunny phenomenon:

    Quote

    There are certain shows that you can safely assume most people have seen. These shows were considered fantastic when they first aired. Now, however, these shows have a Hype Backlash curse on them. Whenever we watch them, we'll cry, "That is so old" or "That is so overdone".

    The sad irony? It wasn't old or overdone when they did it, because they were the first ones to do it. But the things it created were so brilliant and popular, they became woven into the fabric of that show's genre. They ended up being taken for granted, copied and endlessly repeated. Although they often began by saying something new, they in turn became the new status quo. It's basically the inverse of a Grandfather Clause taken to a trope level: rather than being able to get away with something that is seen as overdone or out of style simply because it was the one that started it, people will unfairly disregard it because it got lost amidst its sea of imitations even though it paved the way for all those imitators. That is, a work retroactively becomes a Cliché Storm.

    I wasn't satisfied with MusicLab RealGuitar's realism either. But we were talking about who started it first.

    Only thing roughly comparable to RealGuitar was Wizoo's Virtual Guitarist (branded as Steinberg), but it was a loop player as you said.

     

    1 hour ago, PavlovsCat said:

    NO ONE was using RealGuitar in final pro productions.

    RealGuitar samples weren't great. I don't know how new versions perform today.

    However, there are pros who still use Triton's guitar patches in records and media, and there are pros who'd never even do guitar comping, let alone virtual guitars.

     

    1 hour ago, PavlovsCat said:

    he had reverse engineered OTS' guitar and bass libraries to determine everything being done in the scripting and the various samples and modeling techniques used (because modeling is part of how OTS gets that realism).

    Understandable. Kontakt has been the industry standard for 3rd party sample library developers, and it was easy to deconstruct compared to VSTs written in C++. People would copy the first good models.


     

    1 hour ago, PavlovsCat said:

    But all in all, I probably had conversations and gave some degree of business advice to several different guitar library and plugin developers because I had owned their guitar libraries and sought to have input in their products and always had the attitude that these were really small businesses -- even the largest of sample developers are small businesses.

    That's cool!

    I actually have some Kontakt business plans that also involve virtual guitars. I consider myself competitive in programming, but I have subpar sampling conditions: No soundproof room, no good mics, no multi-input audio interface. So I will just sample my bass and electric guitar's DI, and work with that.

    Based on what I understand from your posts regarding guitar VIs; a decent player & strumming engine (like in OTS) is a bigger selling point than choking the user on many articulations like Prominy does.

    UJAM Sparkle 2 Released

    in Deals

    Posted

    20 minutes ago, Philip G Hunt said:

    The sound is so identifiably Ujam. You can hear it in songs on the radio. And it really turns me off.

    That's why I avoid anything from UJAM.

    With such popularity, it's easy to sound like THAT guy who uses UJAM loops.

    • Like 1

    UJAM Sparkle 2 Released

    in Deals

    Posted

    37 minutes ago, PavlovsCat said:

    So, it can work exactly the way you are used to playing and I play that way too, but that's not always going to give you a very realistic sound for a number of reasons, which is that unless you are playing guitar chords exactly the way you play them on the guitar, it's not going to sound authentic.

    Sure, without adjusting the way you play the keyboard, it won't sound like guitar at all. You hit chords like a block, or switch between chords quickly that would be unrealistic on a guitar; then you'll get a harpsichord sound out of an acoustic guitar VI, and Rhodes/Wurli/Clavinet sound out of an electric guitar VI.

    39 minutes ago, PavlovsCat said:

    And it's a pretty big deal and it changed the way many other developers did their libraries, copying what Evolution did.  

    With all respect to what Greg did following your suggestions, it's MusicLab that set the standard in guitar VIs 20+ years ago.

    They started with a MIDI FX plugin for Cakewalk called Rhythm'n'Chords to create realistic guitar parts using MIDI. They released the VST version shortly after. Both came with a guitar pattern library.

    Then they released RealGuitar in around 2003 as VST, and it's been used as a model for almost all the guitar VIs since then.

    Here is a demonstration of RealGuitar from 2006:

     

    56 minutes ago, PavlovsCat said:

    But that alone  isn't enough to get an ultra realistic guitar performance, of course,  because you're going to need to do upstrokes and downstrokes, so there is one of the big dilemmas if you're playing live when you're not using loops, that's pretty much not going to happen realistically in real-time without using a keyswitch  or a strumming engine. Also, you're not going to be able to switch between various types of strums -- AKA articulations -- like a real guitarist would do.

    You shouldn't need to use a strumming engine for that.

    A guitar VI to play individual notes can (and does) have an engine to determine, in real time, which strings to fret the notes on, which direction (upstroke/downstroke) the strings will be played, and what articulation to perform; either automatically, or using the note velocity, expression pedal, mod wheel, CC fader position, etc. as a cue.

    Using keyswitches while playing isn't always difficult either. I'm thinking to get a MIDI foot pedal keyboard for keyswitches.

    1 hour ago, PavlovsCat said:

    https://www.orangetreesamples.com/audio/PeterDeLegge-DearPaul.mp3

    It's a beautiful arrangement. Glad to hear OTS VIs work so well for you.

    UJAM Sparkle 2 Released

    in Deals

    Posted

    6 minutes ago, PavlovsCat said:

    Do you not use them because you don't find them intuitive or you have learned how to use them and don't like the results? 

    Both.

    Playing the guitar VI like a keyboard instrument gives me more control over how notes and chords played.
    I can voice the same chord with different shapes easily.
    I don't need to worry about strumming/soloing separation.
    I can enjoy the instrument, without thinking about the software bits like chord recognition, key switches, tempo syncing...
    My imperfect performances always sound more authentic than software randomization.
    I can share my keyboard riffs among all the chromatic VIs.

    Song Association Game :D

    in The Coffee House

    Posted · Edited by daveiv

    39 minutes ago, Wibbles said:

    A local band to me.

    Rachel was cute back in the day. But whenever I saw her out and about she always had her drip of a boyfriend in tow.

    Let's make it a shoegazing/noise evening.

    Edit: Post-punk too!

    • Great Idea 1

    UJAM Sparkle 2 Released

    in Deals

    Posted · Edited by daveiv

    42 minutes ago, kevin H said:

    $79 for loyalty discount for owning other titles

    I own Carbon that I got for free, but I also own AcousticSamples and SoundPaint guitars. I'm not loyal, am I? :P

    Update: UJAM seems to be cool about it. I can add the $79 loyalty thing to the cart.

    • Like 1
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