kevmsmith81

11 hours ago, Starship Krupa said:

Well, there is a page in the official Cakewalk documentation about improving audio performance, but I'm not even going to link to it here. It's so out of date that I started a lighthearted humorous thread about it called "Wisdom of the Ages." It looks as if it has not been updated in decades. There are men and women reading this thread, using CbB, who were literally not yet born when that document was last touched. I would like to compile a Windows 10-appropriate list that the new devs could incorporate into the current documentation if they wish, but that's another thread.

Anyway, when I first upgraded from Windows 7 to Windows 10 (I'll now call it an "upgrade"), my system was not 100% happy. So I rolled up my sleeves and looked at what was going on using some analysis tools. I learned two important things.

First, Cakewalk's playback engine streams from every clip's associated audio file every time you hit Play*. That goes for muted clips and tracks, too. The only tracks and clips that don't stream are ones that are Archived.

(*Not all DAW's do this. Some have logic that figures out which is the audio that needs to be streamed (that is, clips that are unmuted) and streams only those files, and some may even do dirty tricks like compress or bandwidth limit on playback (on PLAYBACK, I stress, not mixdown) in order to provide that coveted glitch-free mixing experience. With so many people believing that "all DAW's sound the same," they can do whatever they want, because, after all, it's impossible for a DAW to sound different. 😎)

Second, Windows Defender Antimalware Service is set up by default to scan everything in real time. That is, every time a program reads or writes a file to or from the drive, Defender is sitting there waiting to jump in and scan it. That includes VST plug-ins, samples, audio files and all the dynamic linking libraries that any Windows program like Cakewalk loads during runtime. Just think of a whole extra program between Cakewalk and the drive that's scanning your vocal performance for malware on the fly....

This is not theoretical. In both cases I sat here and watched Windows Process Monitor as I ran a project and did a Keanu "whoa." In @Robert Bone's worst suspicions I doubt there's a wi-fi adapter driver around that could eat up as much overhead as I was seeing, and I was getting clean DPC scans. 😀

But enough of my prattle!

What can we do about this?

Windows Defender allows you to exclude certain folders from realtime scanning. Get thee now to Settings/Security and exclude your Cakewalk project folders from realtime scanning. I also recommend you do it for your plug-in and sample folders. None of these folders are likely to carry a malware payload, and if by some chance they did, Defender would pick it up on its systemwide scans. Be aware that Microsoft loves to revert your security settings, so once you've excluded folders from realtime scanning, check that setting every couple of months to make sure that they haven't switched back.

Also, in projects with many unused takes that you're keeping around for possible later comping or alternate versions, etc., consider moving them to other tracks and then Archiving those tracks so that they don't all get streamed unnecessarily while you're mixing and comping your main "keepers."

Try these and report back if you see an improvement in performance. They work for me, on my system, but as always, YMMV.

I use Windows Defender, and I wasn't aware of this.

So, I will try this and see how I get on.  And thank you!

Hi, my issues seem quite different from yours in that I have no issue loading projects, however the audio engine is dropping out when recording.

However, the first thing I would ask is what your setup is - are you using some kind of audio interface?  And are you using ASIO drivers specifically for that interface?  If you are, maybe try ASIO4ALL and see if you can load projects with that instead of your device's default drivers.

Also, not everyone is having the issues I'm having which suggests the problem may not be widespread.  I'm certainly not the only person experience the issue, however some people are seemingly not having the problem.

1 hour ago, abacab said:

If I was going to judge the hardware being used, I believe that it is fair to say that starting with a mobile processor at 2Ghz core frequency definitely limits the possibilities. Could be that something in Cakewalk "slightly" tilted the performance margin in such a way that someone running a DAW at 3-4 Ghz wouldn't notice.

That is of course possible, and may explain why I get this issue with Cakewalk, but can use Reaper and Mixbus without issue.  Which I guess means I am going to have to seriously think about just switching to Reaper.

Not ideal, but buying a new computer isn't an option at this point.

I have now done the test.   Apparently my system should be suitable for handling real time audio and other tasks without dropouts.

20 minutes ago, abacab said:

Did you give LatencyMon a try yet?

I downloaded it, but I didn't get back to my PC until quite late last night so I've not done the test as yet.

4 minutes ago, abacab said:

Try checking that your Windows power scheme is set to "Performance".

That is a mobile processor and the default is probably balanced or something like that. If so that would be trying to conserve power at the expense of performance.

Thanks for tip - this is the first thing I do every time I power on a new laptop for the first time, as I always have it plugged in anyway.

17 minutes ago, Jon White said:

Cakewalk is consistently the worst at handling audio data flow amongst all my DAWs.  It clicks and pops and overloads consistently on mid-loaded projects that do just fine in Samplitude, Sequoia, Reaper, ProTools, FL Studio and Nuendo.  To have to adjust buffers over 128 asks for intolerable latency with soft-synths and direct monitoring.  I'm not saying that this isn't something in this particular case that will be figured out, but I am saying that Cakewalk and Sonar have always been the worst at handling audio flow.  I've been with Cakewalk since the eighties.

I'm just glad to have an alternative I can go to. I will try the suggestions people have provided when I'm at my computer but it is frustrating to deal with this issue. 

22 minutes ago, pwalpwal said:

the op did state that the same driver settings and similar project in another daw did not show these issues 🤔

That said, the link provided in David's post is something I was not aware of and could be a useful tool.

However, given I could import the same stems into Reaper, stick the same plugins on and would not get dropouts.  I've also done the same with Harrison Mixbus 32c, which has EQ's, compressors etc running by default all the time due to the way that is set up and also not get dropouts, so I can't help but think that the issue very much lies with Cakewalk.

I should also point out that I am not trying to claim Cakewalk is bad, seeing how some people have been very quick to leap to its defence and assume it must be user error.  I repeat, I want to use Cakewalk - I was a SONAR user for a good few years before Gibson binned it off and  have always been very happy with the workflow.  However, these issues are currently making Cakewalk unusable for me.  I cannot complete a 4 minute vocal take or guitar take without getting a dropout.

39 minutes ago, Robert Bone said:

I am off to doc, wll check back in 3-4 hours

I won't be able to try until much later.  I won't be at my computer for at least another 6 hours or so. 

1 minute ago, Robert Bone said:

What happens at 128 samples?

I'll need to try and get back to you.

4 minutes ago, Robert Bone said:

When you use and its ASIO driver mode in Cakewalk, and the Universal Control ASIO drivers, can you please list:

1) Project Sampling Rate

2) ASIO Buffer Size (check it by going to Edit > Preferences > Audio > Driver Settings, in the Mixing Latency section - it should show 'number of samples' or something like that - might be 32 samples, 64 samples, 128 samples, etc... up to possibly 2048)

3) If you are trying to track/record, you should avoid having certain types of effects, such as convolution reverb or Linear Phase types, because they need huge ASIO buffer sizes in order to work properly.  You also, when recording, should keep your ASIO Buffer Size set at maybe 128 samples or a bit less, so that things sync properly.  When mixing, go ahead and throw in a convolution reverb, or a linear-phase EQ, etc., but now you should alter your ASIO Buffer Size up to either 1024 or even 2048.  SO - please list the plugins loaded into this particular project.

 

1) I think was set to 44.1, but I'd need to check when back at my laptop.  (I'm at work at the moment).  Was either that or 48, but I'm 95% sure it's 44.1.

2) It was set to 256 samples, but I increased to 512 when the dropouts started and it didn't help.

3) The only effect I ever have active when recording vocals is the Sonitus reverb as the CPU load seems to be low and I find having a gentle reverb helps when tracking vocals.  I'll have Waves GTR3 or TH3 active when recording guitar, depending on which sound I want.   All other effects get added once everything is recorded and I start mixing.

4 minutes ago, lapasoa said:

Being more accurate, you have to create an intrument track choosing any plugin you like.

After that you have to select the whole bars or part of the bars of the audio track.

Click right on an audio bar and choose region X - melodyne - create region FX.

After that you drag the audio track into the instrument track.

If the audio track is monophonic is all right.

But if the audio track is poliphonic you have to own at least Melodyne Assistant.

Are you sure it's Melodyne Assistant?  I own Assistant, and as far as I can tell that only deals in monophonic signals.  I thought you needed the top end edition (Studio) for any polyphonic signals.

1 minute ago, lapasoa said:

Consider that Presonus Audiobox 96 is a very cheap audio interface.

In any case you have to download the Asio factory driver for Windows.

After the download, adjust the buffer.

It may not be a massively expensive interface, but it was working fine until the most recent Cakewalk updates.  And, as stated I don't get these issues in the other DAWs I've tried on the same computer, which suggests that the issue lies with Cakewalk and not the interface.

11 minutes ago, pwalpwal said:

are you running the latest universal control drivers? https://www.presonus.com/products/AudioBox-USB-96/downloads

did you update that recently? can you try a previous version?

I will have to check - I believe it is set to update automatically, but I will look into that.  And, yes it is ASIO drivers!

Thanks

1 minute ago, pwalpwal said:

so when you use your "interface's custom drivers" (not WDM/MME/WASAPI/ASIO4ALL), what code do you get?

Same code for both.

I'm using a Presonus Audiobox 96, if that makes any difference.

13 minutes ago, pwalpwal said:

(op already " tried switching from my interface's custom drivers to Asio4all, and it still happens.")

is there a dropout code? devs can use that

 

Yes - number 4, as per OP.  The guide states this is a buffering issue, but I can have the exact same tracks in another DAW (Reaper, or Mixbus 32c - take your pick), with the same plugins and not get dropouts in either of those.

4

WDM/MME/WASAPI output buffer not available for delivery to audio device.

Increase the Buffers in Playback Queue value in Edit > Preferences > Audio - Driver Settings.

As per:

https://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=Cakewalk&language=4&help=AudioPerformance.24.html

58 minutes ago, Kevin Perry said:

Assuming you have Melodyne installed, drag an audio clip to a MIDI clip and Melodyne will automatically do its magic - you're obviously constrained by the source material (cleanliness) and version of Melodyne.

Does this not require the full version of Melodyne if it's more than one note playing at the time?

4 minutes ago, Feral State Sound said:

Same here. I can't even try the free Full Bucket plugs like the "Tricent mk III" because I get an instant dropout (using Wasapi shared mode and Win 10).

In REAPER is all working perfectly fine. I like the Cakewalk layout much more but I am guessing that it needs a serious rewrite of the code.

Glad it's not just me.  As I said, I'm confident it's not my computer, as Cakewalk was working fine on this machine, and another one with a considerably weaker CPU, until recent updates.  Kinda sucks, as I know my way around it and  there's some old third party Plugins that I like, which will only work with Cakewalk due to authorisation.

But, at this point if I can't even track a vocal track over a karaoke backing track (one of the least demanding recording tasks given only two tracks in the DAW are being used), then I'm going to have to quit with Cakewalk and get to know Reaper instead.

I don't believe it is possible, in Cakewalk at least.

There are services online where you can convert an audio file to midi, but the results are almost invariably terrible.

Is anyone else getting this problem with the last update?  It's error code 4

Audio dropouts are getting to the point where I cannot use this DAW anymore.  Just to try the least demanding thing I could think of, I tried doing a single vocal take over a karaoke  backing track, and I'm still getting it.

I've tried switching from my interface's custom drivers to Asio4all, and it still happens.

For reference, I can have exactly the same things open in Reaper, with the same plugins using the same driver settings and I do not get dropouts in that - so I'm confident it's not my computer that's the issue, but Cakewalk.

I prefer to use Cakewalk, as I'm more confident in my way around it, but if this doesn't stop I will need to start learning Reaper properly!

EDIT:  Just for reference, my machine is a laptop running Windows 10 with a Ryzen 5 2500U CPU and 16GB RAM, so it's a fairly decent system.  It has a mechanical HDD rather than a SSD, but even so Cakewalk was fine before the last couple of updates.

5 minutes ago, scook said:

Plug-in Properties is in the drop down above the Plug-in UI.

The Plug-in Properties dialog is available in the Plug-in Manager too.

 

Brilliant, thank you.  I will give that a try once I'm at my laptop.

10 minutes ago, David Baay said:

Try going to Properties of non-workiing VSTis in Plugin Manager, and setting "Do not intercept NRPNs".

I will try that if I can figure out how to get to it!  Thank you

14 hours ago, David Baay said:

When you say "I can play the notes which are showing on the piano roll and they make a sound", do you mean on a hardware controller,  on the PRV keyboard, or by clicking the notes in the PRV?

Other possibilities:

- Clips muted

- Notes muted

- MIDI channel mismatch

- Instrument attack too slow for duration of MIDI notes.

- Instrument's velocity response curve requires a high minimum velocity to be heard.

- Wayward controllers silencing the synth.

- MIDI Prepare Using buffer too low.

 

 

This does give me some things to try, so thank you.  I'll have to check these all out.

I'm not sure the clips are muted, as I can assign Cakewalk Sound Center, and some other Synths and the track will play, but other VSTi's won't play if I assign those to the track.  But the other things I will check, so thank you.

14 hours ago, tecknot said:

The only other things I can think of is that perhaps the output from your instrument/soft synth is not directed to an output (or a muted output) or input echo is turned off.

Kind regards,

tecknot

It can't be this as far as I can tell, as I can play notes on it, either using the on-screen keyboard or using a physical keyboard.  It just won't play the notes imported into the piano roll from the midi track.

2 hours ago, Promidi said:

Instead of importing the midi file - try opening it directly into Cakewalk instead...

That's fine, and I can do that.  But unless I'm mistaken, there's no way of then assigning a different soft synth to the individual tracks.  If there is, please let me know, as I've tried and haven't been able to figure it out.