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Robert Bone

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Posts posted by Robert Bone

  1. I agree on wishing we could have the extra control for each cymbal, but I think they just view it as trying to faithfully recreate the sound of how regular acoustic kits are recorded.  I look at it like, why can't we improve on it, by adding that same level of control to the cymbals?  Oh well.

    Glad you are all set.  :)

    You mentioned having AD2 - do you have the drum map for AD2?  If not, here is the link to where you can download it:


  2. Howdy - I posted this in a post earlier, but thought it would be good to add it here, in case anybody wanted to save themselves some work.

    I created a custom Drum Map, for all the note mapping data for the Cutya Kit, from SSD5-5.  Along with it, I created a Project and Track Template.  The templates have a track folder, an instance of SSD5 with the Cutya drum kit loaded, and that instance of SSD5 has each Mixer kit piece channel routed to use a separate audio output channel.  Additionally, in the template track folder (both project and track templates), there are 2 midi tracks (one main midi track, and a 2nd for click track midi data, if desired).  There are also audio tracks for every audio output channel coming from the SSD5 synth rack instance, and a number of buses (Drums Master, Parallel Compression, Kick, Snare, Hi-Hat, Toms, Ride, Cymbals, Percussion, OH, and Room), and I set up gain staging for all kit piece audio tracks, and the buses, to be set to approximately -18 dBFS.  The buses for Kick, Snare, Toms, and Percussion have sends that go to the Parallel Compression bus, which has some parallel compression dialed up - which can be seasoned to taste, or removed, as desired.

    I did assign track icons, and track colors, which will persist if you open a new project, using the project temlate.  For some reason, bus colors do not persist when inserting the track template into a project.  I did choose a different color for the 2 midi tracks, to make it easier to see them in the track folder, because of all the audio tracks.  In the Project Template, I also have the Master bus set to a different color than the other buses, for the same reason - to make it stand out better as the Master bus.

    I hope folks with SSD5 find the components I created useful.  Even if you don't like the other choices I made in what I set up, at least the drum map will have saved you a bunch of typing.  :)

    In the Dropbox folder I uploaded (link will be below), I also put a 2 text files.  One contains the mapped drum note numbers and names, which you might find easier to read than if you tried to read them in either the Drum Map Manager, or if you open Step Sequencer and you see the note names there.  (the text boxes containing the note names are pretty narrow, and cannot, to the best of my awareness, by widened, so if you open that text file, you will see them all listed vertically, at full width.

    The 2nd text file, contains the list of components in the folder, and instructions for where to place each of the components (templates, and drum map).  I also included a shortcut that uses a standard variable that will automatically resolve to your user's AppData\Roaming\Cakewalk\Cakewalk Core\Drum Maps\ folder, which is the location Cakewalk stores Drum Maps in.  Just double-click on the shortcut in the Dropbox folder, after first copying the drum map file, and then you can simply paste it into the Drum Maps folder the shortcut takes you to.

    I did not create shortcuts for the templates, as lots of folks these days, move those to different hard drives than C:. but the instructions in the text file tell you where to place each of the 2 templates.

    One last note about the gain staging.  Some of the mapped kit piece note numbers, are different  variations of 'hits' for a given kit piece, such as Tambourine Tip, Tembourine Up, and Tambourine Down, or Ride Bell  Tip, Ride Bow Tip, and Ride Bow Shank,  etc.  For at least those kit pieces, those variations can vary by as much as 8-10 dB, so addressing that with gain staging alone, is not possible.  For such variations in volume, you wil have to control it with either velocity editing, and/or by volume automation.  Just be aware of that.  I tried to strike a reasonable balance with what I set up.

    HOPEFULLY, the above will be similar, for other kits to be mapped, so I hope I can save folks some typing, and some time. :)

    I think that should cover it, except the link:

    Drobox folder with custom components I created for SSD5 Cutya Kit with split audio output channels

    Bob Bone

    • Like 1

  3.  I am going to create a new thread, to post the link to the Dropbox folder I uploaded, with the components I created for the SSD5 Cutya kit, in case anybody else wants to download them.  Hopefully, I won't catch too much flack for my track color choices, or my gain staging.  Perhaps the not having to build it all themselves will temper the comments :) hee hee

    @user390096 - are you all squared away now, on accessing the other channels in the SSD5 Mixer?

    Bob Bone

  4. Howdy @Billy86 and anyone else.  Sorry it took so long to circle back to this.  I had a great many things that got in the way.

    I have uploaded a folder with the custom drum map, project template, and track template, I created for the SSD5 Cutya Kit, splitting each mixer channel, to a separate audio output channel.

    In the project and track templates I created, I created a track folder, with a main MIDI track, as well as a MIDI track for click, and audio tracks for all the kit pieces.  I did set gain staging to around -18 dBFS for each of the audio tracks, though for at least 2 of the kit pieces, the Ride Cymbal and the Tambourine, multiple note numbers with different variations, have pretty good sized volume differences, so since all Ride Cymbal note numbers go to the same audio output channel, additional mitigation of volumes needs to be done, either with velocity editing, and/or automation.  There may be other kit pieces that have that issue - I did not pay any attention to note number mappings I would rarely use - I just went with the most likely used note number for a given kit piece.  You will see what I mean when you start programming up MIDI data for this drum kit.

    I also set it up for parallel compression of the Kick bus, Snare bus, Toms bus, and Percussion bus., using Sends and a Parallel Compression Bus.  There are a number of buses set up, as well, and those will all be inserted into the project from either the Project Template, or the Track Template, though when inserting from the Track Template, the bus colors do not persist, so they will be the default Cakewalk color for buses.

    I also uploaded a text document with the note mappings - might be easier to read then the shortened visibility in the text boxes of either the Drum Map Manager, or viewing the drum map note names in the Step Sequencer.  Place this text document anywhere you want, on your hard drive.

    Please read the Text document in the folder, because it has instructions on where to copy and paste the different uploaded custom components in the Dropbox folder.

    Enjoy - sorry if you don't like the track colors.  Change as desired.

    Here is the link to the uploaded folder in my Dropbox account: SSD5 Cutya Kit Custom Drum Map and Templates for Cakewalk

    Bob Bone

  5. 2 hours ago, Billy86 said:

    That's super generous, Bob! That sounds like a ton of meticulous work. Thank you! I've yet to do a drum map, so I'll have to the start to at least see what the end product is supposed to look like. :) I like building a drum track in EZ Drums, then dragging it to a MIDI track and pointing it to SSD VSTi, with the SSD5 map configuration set to the EZ drum map that's included. Let's see what kind of routing knots I can tie myself up in!!

    Particularly interested in this: "I just went through the exercise of splitting the Cutya Kit to all separate output channels, and I built a custom drum map in Cakewalk for it, and setup a Project Template and a Track Template, complete with additional buses (Drums master, kick, snare, toms, cymbals, OH, Room, parallel compression)..." 

    Are you saying you were able to route the cymbals out separately from SSD5 mixer, which gave you access to direct those cymbals into the additional cymbals bus you mention in the bolded text above? 

    Well, it turns out I was sleep, when I typed up that post, and my brain blurred things a bit - those buses and nuanced drum mappings were from a Kontakt drum library, called Studio Drummer, and so I will try to now correct my earlier mistakes of description.

    There are bunches of nuanced drum note mappings in SSD5 Cutya kit, though they do differ a bit, from what I had posted earlier.  The SSD5 drum kits use a different method for avoiding that famous machine-gun sound that older drum sample libraries had.  Rather than using a different set of samples, for a Snare Left and a Snare Right, like is done in the Kontakt Studio Drummer, the SSD5 drum kits use an approach they call 'stacked', or 'stacking', which they claim does a better job of representing the sound of repeated snare hits, or toms.

    The 2nd correction I need to make, is in my description of the buses - the buses I listed, and that you quote above, were from that Kontakt Studio Drummer kit.  The SSD5 kit does not have cymbals split out from the OH and Room mics, and I am sorry for any confusion.  I had been up working on stuff until 6 AM, and even though I then slept until around Noon, I was still a bit bleary and blurry when I wrote that other post.

    The SSD5 approach to having the cymbals handled through the OH and Room mics IS the most realistic way of presenting cymbals, because that IS how real drum kits have microphones recording the cymbals.

    I think the SSD5 kits, particularly the Cutya kit, and their handling of the cymbals using OH and Room mics, sound realistic, and that is way kewl.  I have other drum synths and libraries that do allow for cymbals to be routed separately, but the SSD5 approach works fine for me, so I don't bother with the other ones.

    I am trying to wrap up some stuff so I can upload the drum map and templates - quick as I can, I will

    Bob Bone

  6. 3 hours ago, Billy86 said:

    Yes please, Bob!  Do you know if one would have to do what you did on the one kit on a kit by kit basis in SSD5?

    Yes, because different kits have different configurations, though for the stuff that is the same, you can reuse any of those note number row entries in the custom map.  For instance, one kit may have different percussion instruments, or perhaps none, and one may have different number of cymbals, or different number of toms.  But, basically, and hopefully, they went with standard note numbers for standard kit pieces.

    So, hopefully, all the note number mappings for all their kits, would use the same note numbers for the kick drum, and the high-hat, for example.  I wouldn't understand if they used different mappings, except for any kits that are set up to map to general midi specs.  The Cutya kit does not conform to the standard/general midi note mapping specs.  

    But again, even if a kit differs from what I built, for the custom drum map, you could use my drum map as a starting point, and figure out what is the same, and what is different, and then you could simply adjust the delta (whatever is different), to map to the other kit, and that should save a load of time. So, I would suggest starting a new project, using the Project Template I will post, as that has what you would need, to start with, then change the drum kit in the SSD5 instance in the Synth Rack, to whatever kit you want to map, then I would suggest opening the Drum Map Manager, and enter a new drum map name in the text box, and click the Save icon just to the right of that text box, so that you save it under the new name (that way, you won't risk overlaying the map I built for Cutya), and then start comparing the mapping of those notes against the mapping of the kit you want to change the map to match.

    I also have a text document I built, with the Cutya mapping, and that might be easier to use for comparison, than using the Drum Map Manager rows, as the text boxes for the Names aren't wide enough to display the whole names of the mapped notes.  I will post that text doc as well.  What I did, was to have Cakewalk running at less than full screen, by double-clicking on the title bar (top) of the Cakewalk window, and that way I could open the text document and keep it on the right side of the screen, so it wouldn't keep disappearing every time I clicked on a row in the Drum Map Manager, and I simply would copy the text for a given row, from my text doc, and paste it into the apprpriate row in the Drum Map Manager, and that made things go a lot quicker, plus it was easier to see the info in that text doc, to make sure I had it all correct.  You will see, when you open up the doc and the Drum Map Manager......

    Also, I set the gain-staging for everything to around -18 dBFS, just to let you know.  (confession time).

    I am about to get into some other stuff for a couple of hours, but then I will circle back and post what I set up for the Cutya kit, and you, or anybody, is free to use and hopefully like what I built for it.  We are all on the same team - one planet, one people, as they say.  :)

    Bob Bone

  7. 8 hours ago, Dave G said:

    I noticed that, up in the track view area where the track bars are, some of the areas along the right are shaded (gray) in patterns, some areas more than others.

    I used to think that was because of the amount of data (i.e. notes, events) in a certain area, but it doesn't seem consistent.

    What does the shading indicate, and why are some areas shaded more heavily?

    Could you please take a screenshot of what you are referring to, and post it here?  It would make it easier for me to know precisely what you are asking about.  (it is early, and I am out of coffee).  Windows comes with a Snipping Tool, which you can use to capture a square/rectangle that you drag around the area you want to capture, then you can copy and paste it in a reply, to this post.  You can find it in the listed apps on the left side of the tiles if you hit the Windows Start Button, under Windows Accessories. :)

    Bob Bone

  8. There is a slider at the bottom of the UI mixer screen, that you can slide left or right, to expose the other mixer channels.  :)

    I just went through the exercise of splitting the Cutya Kit to all separate output channels, and I built a custom drum map in Cakewalk for it, and setup a Project Template and a Track Template, complete with additional buses (Drums master, kick, snare, toms, cymbals, OH, Room, parallel compression), set up the parallel compression, and gain staged every last bit of it.

    There are something like 70 or so, drum note mappings, for an absolutely incredible number of nuanced variants, I mapped them all.

    WHEW.  If anybody wants that custom drum map, and the project and track templates, just let me know, and I will upload them to Dropbox and post a link.

    Bob Bone

  9. 1 hour ago, NealClark said:

    I understand all about the C++ run time libraries as I worked as a software developer for more years than I care to remember. I will take a look though just to make sure everything is as it should be. The odd thing is that if the libraries weren't correct then these errors would happen all the time. But they don't. As I mentioned previosly it's all a bit random at times.

    Kudos for your development work - I put in 38 years in IT, in multiple roles.

    Anyways, for an error related to a missing runtime library to manifest, a specific call to a routine from that missing library would have to be made, and that could depend on particular logic paths being processed.  These runtime libraries may not be invoved with what is going on, with your crashes, but they are a common reason for crashes in plugins that are not widely reported as crashing.

    The nice thing is that by comparing the libraries installed, with the list in the post I provided earlier, installing any missing ones, and testing out the loading and use of the plugins that had been failing, you can pretty easily find out if that fixed the issues, or not, but in any case, it is good to have those runtime libraries installed.  And, it is not a difficult thing to go through the steps to make sure all the runtime libraries are installed.

    Bob Bone

  10. 4 hours ago, NealClark said:

    Thanks for the Info, much appreciate the help, I will check those out.


    Sure - those runtime libraries are needed, because applications that are written in Visual C++ call routines that are release-specific for the runtime libraries those applications were calling, when they were compiled.  Then, when they run, they require that same version of runtime library to be present, and crash, with an Address Exception, if that specific runtime library is not installed on the computer. 

    That is why there are so many of those - they can all be installed right alongside each other, and in that post I put the link to in my earlier reply, I list the runtime library links in oldest to newest order, so you can just march down the list to install any that aren't already installed on your PC.

    Please post back, after you install any missing ones, and try loading and using those synths that were failing before.  :)

    Bob Bone

  11. Howdy - a common cause of one or more plugins failing in a VST Host, such as Cakewalk, is that one or more of the Microsoft Visual C++ Runtime Redistributable libraries are missing.  If this is the issue, it is fortunately pretty easy to confirm, and to correct.

    I built a post, a while back, with the direct links, in order, of each of those runtime libraries, and you can compare the list in that post, against which ones show up as installed on your system.  To see which ones are installed on your system, open up Control Panel, and click on the link that says Uninstall a Program.  That will bring up the list of installed programs on your computer, and just scroll down until you start seeing a bunch of those runtime libraries in that list.  Then, compare those against the list in the post I will post the link to, below.  Install any of those runtime libraries that are missing, and when you are done, see if that corrects your issues with plugins causing crashes.

    Here is the link to the post I built (Please note: you need to install the x86 and x64 runtimes):

    Post with links for all available Microsoft Visual C++ Runtime Redistributables

    Bob Bone

  12. 2 hours ago, Fwrend said:

    Great free info here from a musician - Glitch Free

    I have never gone through the disabling Nagle's Algorithm, or the Spread Spectrum - maybe check LatencyMon's post-monitoring report, to see if you have things in your system causing DPC Latency spikes that would interfere with the streaming audio processing that DAW software uses, such as Cakewalk, before embarking on disabling those two sets of settings.

    Bob Bone

    • Like 1

  13. 19 hours ago, marled said:

    I agree that XLN is a prime example for that, but I had such problems with other plugin providers, too! But I cannot remember which ones! 😄

    AD2: I like it and use it, too. But as one said before, there is a lot of processing in their presets and I prefer to do the processing in the DAW (CbB) by myself! I don't like those over-defined presets, because they often conflict with the rest of the mix. Yes, they sound cool when you run the drums on its own. But as soon as you add several other tracks (bass, guitars, synths, ...) they get your mix too busy!

    The 2nd thing that I dislike in AD2 is that many of their drum instruments are too roomy. If you listen e.g. to their snare track only, then it is very quiet, i.e. the snare goes mainly thru the overheads and room mics. This makes it very difficult to mix when you want to increase or decrease the snare, because you also affect other components and the sound of the snare. And if you want to choose your own room and reduce the room/overhead on some instruments, then the sound is quite weak (snare, toms). Regarding roomy the worst for me is the kick, because until today I have never managed to get the more natural sound that I want (that is very easy to achieve within NI drum kits).

    I agree on the processing - I too prefer to control that from the DAW, and also concur on kits like AD2 that sound great played by themselves, but often have to be tweaked a lot, to get them to sit in the mix.  I find the Native Instruments kits in Kontakt libraries to be absolutely amazing, and have generally switched to using those, as firstly I get more output channels available to split kit pieces to their own audio output channels in Kontakt, the sounds are amazing, and the mapping is at least on par with AD2, and quite possibly even provides more midi note choices.  (the Kontakt Studio Drummer library, for example, has notes mapped from note number 22, all the way up to note number 105, and includes note numbers mapped to things like Hi-Hat fully closed, 1/4 open, 1/2 open, 3/4 open, loosely open, and fully open).

    Addictive Drums 2 also has a bunch of notes mapped, if you use their AD2 standard mapping in the Map Window. 

    One additional comment on the kits in AD2 - a single kit, such as Studio Prog, when you pull up the kit in the AD2 instance, offers perhaps 20 different variations, which are all displayed in the kit window, so even if you have a small number of kits, there are still lots of those variations to pick from.

    Here is a link to info and links for downloading a drum map and project template for Addictive Drums 2 for Cakewalk:

    AD2 setting up a drum map in Sonar (Cakewalk)

    Bob Bone

    • Like 1

  14. 20 minutes ago, User 905133 said:

    You might be right--is it live or is it a pre-planned project?  Or maybe it was done via video editing?


    I dunno - I have a separate midi track for each instrument, and I keep my midi tracks together, in my projects, so if I wanted to play a few ones from a solo violin instrument, I just have to click on that midi track and play my midi controller, and then if I click on the next midi track down, it might be the midi track for a solo cello, or whatever.  some folks group their orchestral instrument midi tracks by section, such as Woodwinds, Brass, Strings, etc, plus, they often use templates with all of that stuff set up already, and because they use that template in many/most of their projects, they get used to knowing where the different kinds of midi tracks for certain instruments, or entire sections, are located, and that makes it easy for them to locate those tracks.

    I do not happen to do orchestral projects, at this point, but even with what I tend to use, I get pretty good at knowing which tracks are where.  It likely boils down to how consistent tracks are grouped from project to project, as to how well someone could get a really good bead on which tracks are where.

    Bob Bone


  15. Couldn't the folks in the video clips also have already created some midi data for the different instruments shown in the clips?  Then, simply playing the project, would let you hear the different sounds from their template.

    Just a thought :)

    Bob Bone

  16. OK - here is the section of documentation on Quick Groups, which seems like it applies to what you want to do:

    Quick Groups Documentation

    SO, to do the same change to identical controls or effects in multiple tracks, you group the tracks, and follow the steps in the above documentation, to cause that change to be done to each track that you grouped.  Please read the above doc, as I believe it contains the instructions to accomplish what you seek to do. :) 

    Bob Bone

  17. 11 hours ago, scook said:

    No because I take steps to prevent unexpected note playback. The combination of conditions has been the subject of numerous threads.

    "Enable MIDI Output" has been the default since X3 for synths with the capability, however; many synths lack the feature.

    "Always Echo Current MIDI Track" is also the default.

    Instrument/MIDI track input set to None is not the same as Omni. When set to None the track rejects all input. When set to Omni the track accepts all input. The potential for trouble happens when a track has its input set to None and "Input Echo" gets turned on. Enabling "Input Echo" causes CbB to switch the input from None to Omni.

    If a track is set to Omni and a plug-in is set to send MIDI data there is nothing to prevent the track from picking up the data.

    Wow - I would have thought I would have experienced this, at some point.  Thanks for explaining.

  18. 13 hours ago, scook said:

    When unexpected MIDI notes play often it is the result of one or more synths with "Enable MIDI Output" turned on and the track playing the notes having its input set to "All Inputs - MIDI Omni"

    To check the synths open the plug-in UIs and click on the VST2/3 drop down


    Instrument and MIDI tracks can get set to "All Inputs - MIDI Omni" if the input is set to None and the track gets "Input Echo" (the button to the right of the record button) turned on. One way this happens is when Always Echo Current MIDI Track is enabled.


    Howdy, @scook.  Have you encountered phantom exported notes, like described in the OP, from the combo of conditions you describe? 

    I ask, because those are default behaviors, and I work primarily with MIDI, as a keyboard player, and I never have unexpected MIDI notesget added when I export, and I always accept the Enable MIDI Output as checked, by default, in the Insert Soft Synth Options dialog, and I also almost always leave MIDI track Input assignments set to None/Omni.

    Bob Bone

  19. 3 hours ago, aidan o driscoll said:

    Thanks guys ONE AND ALL.

    The points are all very good and what I was hoping for. A good wide debate on this issue and focused on Cakewalk which is what we use.

    I take the point that the DAW should not matter, but we are at the Cakewalk forums :D

    About windows 10 & hardware, yip, my day job is my own small IT company for 20 years. I understand. 

    To be truthful i have never had any issues with my systems specs because i tend to buy parts for a desktop upgrade ( have same actual box since the 90s, a tower ). Where laptops are concerned, I study, read reviews and really consider. I have a 17" Dell laptop thats 7, 8 years old - core i5, 16gb ram, Nvidia 2gb card, Hybrid 2GB drive - still handles well for music TBH .. I use a nifty ALESIS Core 1 with that which does the trick BUT that uses ASIO4ALL which I found best ( doesnt have own asio drivers )


    My desktop is a Core i3, 16GB Ram, Nvidia 2GB card and sata drives. On that is the M-Audio Profire 610 ( attached through firewire card ). Again works fine, I have to say a lovely I/F with all the ports required. Probably one of the best M-Audio products? 


    Even with all that I am always on the look out for an audio I/F that is USB and that I can swap between my two systems which does support ASIO via its drivers rather than relying on ASIO4ALL. I have been looking at the newer M-AUDIO I/Fs .. my experience with the profire makes me partial :D

    14640396_800.jpg  MAUDIO+AIR+192X6-2.JPG



    I have several audio interfaces,  including a Presunus AudioBox 1818 VSL, with 8 preamp, an 8-port expansion for that, and a Yamaha/Steinberg UR-22 with two preamps, and those connect with USB 2.0.  My 3rd is a UAD Arrow, which is a Thunderbolt 3 interface, and I use that for my laptop. 

    All 3 work well, but unless I am tracking real drums,  I use the UR-22 for the desktop, because it is much smaller than the Presonus, and I don't normally need more than the two XLR/mic inputs.

    I would suggest you try using a Driver Mode of Wasapi Shared, until you end up with an interface that uses ASIO drivers.  Microsoft really tweaked up their audio processing in the Wasapi driver, and it may well perform better, with lower latency, than the ASIO4ALL has, and likely more stable.  ASIO4ALL is just a wrapper, for I believe the older WDM driver, and WASAPI should perform better than it. 

    I normally set ASIO Buffer Size, with the UR-22, or the AudioBox, to 128 for tracking/recording, and to either 1024 or 2048 for mixing/mastering.  I could run at 64 samples, but then it can sometimes be a tad glitchy, so at 128 there is no audible lag, and it just breezes through tracking.  My UAD Arrow can go WAY lower, down to 32 or 16, but I normally keep it at 32 samples for tracking, and 2048 for mixing/mastering. 

    Most interfaces in the $150 range, and up, will come with ASIO drivers, and perform well, while also being stable.

    Bob Bone 

    • Like 1

  20. Maybe I am missing something - instead of a single stereo track, I generally keep 2 mono tracks, for left and right, using panning law -3 dB Center, sin/cos taper, constant power, and deal with stereo pan and width that way.  I like to have the option of applying slightly different effects on one side or the other.

    Bob Bone 

    • Like 2

  21. For whatever the worth, I have the TyrellN6 soft synth, and it loads up fine. so perhaps something wrong with something local to your computer - perhaps you have some Windows maintenance that is not installed?  (Some Windows maintenance requires explicitly clicking on the Download and Install link in Windows Update).


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