iNate

On 7/10/2023 at 1:55 PM, kitekrazy said:

That Vita stuff eats up space and is about as useful as the Halion SE sounds - value = none.

There can be some sounds that are less run-of-the mill in the Vita stuff which can be of use.  The Tiny Percussion, for example. I actually think some people would be pleasantly surprised with the quality of them, considering they're bundled acoustic sampled instruments.  The big issue I have with Vita Solo is that in the Suite SKU it overlaps heavily with Independence Pro Premium (you get the full library with Pro X Suite).  That being said, they only take up like 8GB in Pro X Suite, and you can install the Sample Content to a secondary SSD.  So, it doesn't really hurt to install them.  They load instantly and are useful for sketching ideas.  Faster than loading patches in any sampler, and very friendly to low-resource machines like Laptops with RAM limitations (8-16GB RAM).

The Drum Kits are less useful because they don't have multi-outs, but you can literally just duplicate the track and use each instrument track for a different piece of the kit.  They use very little resources.

Convology XT Complete uses its own serial number and I'm pretty sure it came with the Suite Version.  Without a Serial, you won't be able to use the vast majority of the content in the Complete Version (there is a free version with some stuff, similar to Independence Free or SampleTank CS) and will waste like 4+GB storage on your machine.

coreFX Suite will run in Samplitude Pro X as they are designed to run without a license in applicable MAGIX products.  They will require one for use in a third party product, but you shouldn't relaly need them in any other DAW as they are basically just stock FX that they distribute on their own instead of integrating them into the package like Essential FX Suite, etc.

I kinda prefer them to be integrated because I don't like the clutter, and having to hide them in other software (where I would never use them).

SoundSpot was always junk discountware. 

...

Not confusing. Means what is written is incorrect. 

I already told you where to look. 

10 hours ago, dubdisciple said:

Despite your indepth and detailed reply, I have no idea what you mean.  

Discussed in depth in another thread. Search post history. It's all there. 

Nothing confusing about "That’s not how it works," though. 

I have X4 Suite and it has always worked for me. I upgraded from X4 to X7. 

17 hours ago, dubdisciple said:

Kinda. Izotope products will communicate with each other without Relay. Relay allows Izotope to communicate with tracks (on a limited level) with tracks that don't have Izotope. It's very basic, but useful for using Izotope AI for gain staging.

No. Lol. Thats not how it works. 

Have 18. Upgraded to 20 and refunded. Performance is not good. Sticking with Resolve Studio and have just moved all laptop video production to my MBP. Makes it easy to avoid all the deals on crappy software applications. 

Samplitude is good, for Audio. Treat it like Pro Tools, IMO. It's probably better overall than Cakewalk at this juncture, though, even the X5 Standard SKU. Underrated, but I only use it for audio editing and cutting for sports. The X7 Suite version... cause the crossfade editor is really, really great (best out of all DAWs and Audio Editors).

Got a 2TB Intel 660p for $69.99 last week :-D

Notation in DAWs was never really about Publishing.  It's about workflow and faster writing, because I do think writing notation is faster than using a piano roll when you're constantly having to change grid values, etc.  DAWs with decent scoring engines also will do things like write Sustain Notes to 95% length and overlap Legato Notes by some Ticks so that this stuff automatically work well with most sample libraries, etc.

I think it's a bit late for the staff view, though.  I think they'd probably want to rewrite it if they were to improve it.

I think the best thing they can do is offer a MusicXML import to allow people to use other notation software and then import the data via MusicXML.

I'm not a big fan of bringing MIDI over from Notation Software, personally, but it's still viable as long as you turn off MIDI Data (Controllers, Velocity Variance, etc.) that they generate behind the scenes.

MusicXML is nice because they can automatically match Articulations to Articulation Maps where applicable.

18 minutes ago, dubdisciple said:

I don't know of any stock solution that does what Izotope does.  

Most of what Relay does is directly on the Mixer in many DAWs. The plug-in exists to enable iZotope to change those settings on tracks without having to implement a dozen (or more) DAW-specific solutions.  Without it, they cannot easily change the panning on a specific track in say, Reaper, Cakewalk, Cubase, Pro Tools, Ableton Live, etc. without some serious development work (if possible at all in some cases, due to poor/lack of automation in a specific DAW).  In order to enable this, they have to abstract the Mixer with the Relay Utility plug-in, in which case you don't really touch the mixer for those tracks for those parameters. You do everything in the Relay Plug-in (or, the plug-ins do it by changing those parameters within Relay on those specific tracks).

If you read Jacques' post, he's basically using it as iZotope intended - via their IPC workflow - because Nectar 3 cannot unmask tracks except by using Relay to adjust Track Parameters.  Without it, it doesn't work.  He has to use the Relay there even after removing Nectar, because without Relay the settings that Nectar sets for those tracks will not persist 😉  He'd have to copy all of those settings to the DAW's native MixConsole, instead.  The sidechain stuff is unremarkable.

Almost everything on Relay is on the Cubase or Samplitude Pro X mixers.  The only thing that may not be there is Stereo Width, but both of those DAWs have a stock spatial plug-in for that, which uses less resources than an instance of Relay on a track.

Most DAWs don't need a "solution" for this.  It's basic stuff in the Mixer or Inspector.  Relay exists only to abstract this in a way that makes it available for adjustment by their other IPC-enabled plug-ins.  It is actually not very useful outside of that scenario, as a result.

On 6/24/2023 at 5:48 PM, Jacques Boileau said:

Relay can also be used as a quick dynamic track spacer to let the vocal poke through. Even if you are not using Nectar or Neutron as your effect chain.

• I use whatever plugin in my vocal effect chain I like
• I put an instance of relay on whatever instrument track or bus, I want to attenuate when the vocal is present
• I put Nectar last on the vocal track and run the unmask assistant with the target relay instance I have. There can be more than one and you simply run the assitant as many times as needed for all the instances of relay you have.
• Then I remove Nectar.
• Next, you create sends from the vocal track, or bus, to each of the relay's sidechain input.
• Switch all relays to sidechan and dynamic.
• You can also tweak the relays compression to your liking.

You can even do the same between kick and bass guitar to duck the bass on kick hits. Nectar is easiest to setup but with little control. Neutron can be used in a similar way for more precise control since it as more functionnality to carve the overlapping  frequencies, but it's more work.

Relay doesn't do anything you can't do in any other DAW that is moderately decent at mixing.

In multiple cases, the DAWs provide their own Utility Plug-ins that basically do what Relay does.

The primary reason to use Relay is to enable Inter-Plugin Communication workflow with iZotope products.

Quote

On the surface, Relay is a low-CPU-overhead utility that lets you adjust your tracks’ gain, pan, stereo image, and filter parameters on the fly. When used in conjunction with other IPC-enabled iZotope plug-ins, it becomes your gateway to numerous automated processes designed to streamline your audio workflow. Relay enables tracks containing Neutron 3, Nectar 3, or VocalSynth 2 plug-ins to interact with one another for automatic mixing, unmasking, and more.

22 hours ago, dubdisciple said:

Nectar will do that but allows for more than six. It also will account for tracks with other Izotope plugins and do the same. I haven't used Smart EQ to compare workflow and effectiveness, but I find Nectar pretty intuitive.  The Izotope system does allow for limited inclusion of non-Izotope products by using Relay plugin. What can be controlled via AI are mostly along the lines of relative gain and initial mix levels, but still a nice feature.

Relay is just a track utility plug-in.  It's used for setting Pan, Gain, etc. and it's made that way so that iZotope's IPC workflow can adjust these things without having to be customized for every single DAW out there (which can expose different settings differently).  This also allows them to develop a workflow where Mixing with iZotope plug-ins (or making certain adjustments) can automatically change Relay (and other iZotope plug-in) settings on the fly.  It doesn't really do anything with third party plug-ins.  It just adjust track levels, panning, etc.  It is similar to Cakewalk Channel Tools, except it ties into the iZotope workflow.

( ^ Explanation not specifically for you; more for other readers. ^ )

How Inter-plugin Communication Shows up in Your Workflow (iZotope.com)

If you actually follow their workflow, mixing is pretty nice.

I think people new to music production can benefit a lot from it, as it will allow them to learn a lot while also being productive and able to get "usable" mixes done.  The unfortunate part of that is that it wants you to go all-in with iZotope and does not work with Elements SKUs, so those newbies are likely to not have access to that workflow.

I wonder if they're going to sell another Tonal Balance Bundle (maybe Black Friday?).

20 hours ago, Bruno de Souza Lino said:

iZotope plugins also use hardware acceleration for the GUI.

I think most iGPUs are going to be able to handle that without issue, not even an Intel UHD 630 would break a sweat with plug-in GUIs.  I generally limit DAWs to the iGPU (in Windows 11 settings) precisely so they aren't ramping up laptop fans, etc. when producing music.  It should not be something that bogs down the CPU.  Also, it would manifest in choppy UI performance, tearing when dragging the UI around, etc.  A completely different set of symptoms.

2 minutes ago, Marina said:

P.S. If you didn’t notice my upgrade wasn’t SL Pro 8 to SL Pro 9.

I noticed.  This is why I asked:

Quote

Also, was that an INTRO price or MSRP?  Because I know for a fact the upgrade from 7/6 to 9 was not normally cheaper than 8 to 9.

1 minute ago, Marina said:

That was the point. Upgrade from SL Pro 6/7 to SL Pro 9 was the same price as SL Pro 9 to SL Pro 10 today. So - obviously it’s more expensive to upgrade today than 1 yr ago.

P.S. If you didn’t notice my upgrade wasn’t SL Pro 8 to SL Pro 9.

You're wrong.

Read my edit.

You got it during an introductory promotional period.

There is no period this year.  The just dropped the MSRP wholesale.

8 minutes ago, Marina said:

Also, was that an INTRO price or MSRP?  Because I know for a fact the upgrade from 7/6 to 9 was not normally cheaper than 8 to 9.

EDIT:

Got it...  Your purchase date is 6/30/2022

From Sound On Sound Review:

Quote

From 29 June to 21 July 2022, both editions of SpectraLayers are available at an introductory offer of 20% off.

2 minutes ago, simon said:

it's really not being actively maintained and as I say, no code updates for 2 years - but obviously you are welcome to your opinion.

Why would they add new code.  What new code is "needed."  It is maintained only to allow those users to access their licenses, as they are pivoting away to Steinberg Licensing.  It worked before, why do they need to add anything new to it other than support for migrating licenses over from eLCC to Steinberg Licensing and making sure it works properly as host platforms update/upgrade?

"New Code" isn't the only way to maintain a product.  That's reality, not an opinion. Lol.

7 hours ago, simon said:

not really - the last Mac bug fix was in 2021.

"still maintain[ed], bug fixed, etc"

19 hours ago, Marina said:

Actually the update price increased comparing to 2022. In 2022 SpectraLayers Pro 9 Update from SpectraLayers Pro 7 / 6 was 79.99. Now a SL Pro 9 to 10 update costs the same amount and the update from SpectraLayers Pro 6/7/8 to 10 is 99,99 which I find to be quite an increase of price (25% more). So Steinberg’s sales department have probably made a faux pas by increasing the update price and many SpectraLayers Pro 8 license owners will be waiting for Black Friday.

Thankfully grace period update voucher is automatically triggered by the system after using an activation code purchased during Steinberg’s May sale when SpectraLayers Pro 9 Update from SpectraLayers Pro 8 (which becomes a SpectraLayers Pro 10 Update from SpectraLayers Pro 8 if activation code is used during today’s release) was only 47.99. Steinberg’s SpectraLayers discounts during new version launch were actually a good thing for us customers.

No.  the upgrade price from 9 to 10 is $79.99.  The price last year from 8-9 was $99.99.  The price from 7-9 was $129.99.

The prices have decreased across the board...

Those are not intro prices.  Those are the prices.  It's ~20% cheaper.

13 hours ago, TheSteven said:

Hi E.D. - not picking on you, just giving information.
 
CPU is probably the bottleneck.  CPU architecture has improved a lot over the last couple of years and an i7 in itself is no longer an indicator of sufficient performance.
E.G. I had a 2012 Alienware i7, 24GB RAM, 2  4TB SDD Samsung EVO drives and finally had to concede that it was outperformed by my kids newer i5 powered laptop.

I found this info googling around...
In general you will get better performance with a newer i5 vs older i7.
Older i7's (like your i7-6700HQ) were 4 cores with 8 threads. Newer i5's are either 6 cores and 6 threads or 6 cores with 12 threads.
The i5 9600K achieves better performance than the i7 7700K, and the i5 10600K achieves better performance than an i7 8700K.
UserBenchmark: Intel Core i7-6700HQ vs i7-7700K

Don't know if upgrading your CPU is an option, but in terms of bang for the buck might be worth checking out.

 

It's a laptop.  It's not an option to upgrade the CPU.  When I felt my i7-7700HQ getting slow, I replaced it with a Ryzen 9 system.  That is the only option.  The only time you can just bolt a major component on, is if the machine support Thunderbolt and you have an eGPU to put a better dGPU in.

This is why getting a laptop as an ONLY machine for creative work is [generally] a bad idea.  It's better to have a stationary desktop that is more economical to keep current technologically than go for a laptop and be stuck with a machine that performs increasingly poorly as it ages without the ability to mitigate it apart from replacing the entire thing.

Those laptops were not cheap back in 2017/18, either.  So portability was likely a bigger consideration than price, but I don't think the long-term drawbacks are worth even that.

I still use laptops, but I don't expect the one I have with a 7th Gen i7 to feel good running creative software (music production, video editing, etc.).

19 hours ago, kitekrazy said:

I guess that would depend on how you use them. Aren't these more for mixing and mastering? 

Ozone = Mastering

RX = Post Production & Audio Restoration

Vocal Doubler = Mixing

Ozone will stress an old CPU when used in a Mixing Scenario at low latencies.  They add a lot of plug-in latency.  RX is for Post and Restoration and restoration algorithms are pretty much de facto CPU intensive.

Generally, when mixing you'd want to use Neutron over Ozone, and use Ozone only as a last resort.  There is a lot of overlap between them, in terms of what modules and discrete plug-ins they offer... this causes a lot of people to "go Ozone" because they think they are killing two birds with one stone.  But they aren't.  They just end up using Ozone in an inoptimal scenario and then running into problems as a result of that workflow.

NeoVerb basically runs multiple Reverbs in parallel and mixes them based on settings in the plug-in.  It also has other effects under the hood, so it isn't surprising that it uses a decent amount of CPU.

IMO, the major selling point of iZotope is the inter-plugin communication workflow that most people who buy them never use 😛 

19 hours ago, El Diablo said:

i7-6700HQ, 32 gb of ram, 2 TB Samsung 970 EVO PLUS M.2, should be good enough?

I have a machine with an i7-7700HQ, 32GB DDR4-2400MHz RAM adn NVMe + SATA SSDs (and a GTX 1050 4GB).

So, I know what the performance is like on a machine (a bit better) than what you have.

I don't really care what you use.  It just seems odd that people with 8-9 year old Laptop CPUs are bashing products for being "CPU hungry."

Like, what did you expect?  iZotope isn't not developing products in 2020 and testing performance on CPUs from 2015.  Almost no developer does this.

This is the best update they've had in years, especially the stuff surrounding vocal cleanup, multi-speaker separation and vocal transcription (the latter of which really needs to come to WaveLab Pro).

However, it's a bit odd that they still haven't released an AudioUnits plug-in for ARA2.

If the upgrade wasn't 20% cheaper than usual, I'm not quite sure if I would have purchased.

6 hours ago, El Diablo said:

I've got a couple of iZotope plugins, like RX Standard, Vocal Doubler, and Ozone Standard.  All of their major plugins is very very very CPU hungry.  They really bog down the computer!  For that reason, I don't plan to invest any more into their software.

No issues with iZotope's plug-ins on my machines.  I use them heavily.

I think maybe it's time for you to upgrade your toaster.

Also, a lot of people come to threads in this forum to do nothing but whine about off-topic details.  Can we not?

2 hours ago, Bruno de Souza Lino said:

SpectraLayers 10 uses the Steinberg Activation Manager, not eLicenser Control though.

Correct.  eLCC is still maintain, bug fixed, etc. so that people with dongled licenses can reliably access their software.  All new releases from Steinberg are Steinberg Licensing-only.

80% of that is Abandonware.