mdiemer

Very nice piece, Tim. That violin is pretty good. I have heard stuff done with nothing but Garritan P/O that sounded incredible, so you're right, you don't necessarily need high-level libraries. I only consider what I have to be mid-level. I still use some Garritan, too. Especially woodwinds and harp.

A quick question: What level should I set the volume knob for the BX5a monitors? Halfway? I'm pretty sure I need the subwoofer. The woofers in the BX5a's are just 5". I read that below 6" you need a sub. By the way, I found this article helpful: https://ask.audio/articles/7-mistakes-to-avoid-when-setting-up-studio-monitors

Thanks Rob. I have the BX5a speakers, which do not have any freq or eq knobs, just a volume knob. I may experiment with wall placement as you suggested. Right now, they are on little stands I made, about 11" high, including foam pads. They are about 4.5" from the wall, but the tweeters stick up above a shelf. The bass however are lower than the shelf, so they can benefit from the reflections. I just discovered that I had the subwoofer crossover set very low. This may be another casualty of recent cleaning and failure to ensure the settings were not changed. Unless I was stupid enough to actually set it that low. Anyway, I am looking at starting over, basically, with this mix. first task is to set up the speaker system correctly. I now have more separation between left and right. I need to research how to set the sub crossover now. I know that 80 is often a starting point, but for studio monitoring I probably need something different. I do think I need the sub, these little guys just don't have enough bass. Just keeping you folks informed, so you know I haven't given up. although it's tempting.

Thanks very much for that, Tezza, it was very informative. I just made the discovery that I have my monitors too close together (about 20 inches, should be 3 feet - I must have forgotten about that specification when I moved stuff recently. It sucks getting old). So, I'm going to fix that, experiment with the crossover on the subwoofer and see how it goes. I may also have to look into room treatment, as has been suggested by many here and elsewhere. Supposedly also there's a way you crawl around on the floor, looking for the right spot for the sub. I may have to relocate my baby grand (anybody need one?).

Actually, I did start out using the M-Audio speakers alone, but their lack of bass frustrated me, so I grabbed the Mackie sub when it was on sale. I probably should have just bought better studio monitors. you may be on to something there, Rob. I have yet to try adjusting the sub's crossover setting, and hopefully that will help.

Thank you Jerry for chiming in on this. Unfortunately, I don't think I will ever attain the level of expertise you and others have. I am only interested in making modest improvements in my music, so that people will be able to get it. Maybe the Jedi Masters, as someone else here put it, will not be able to listen as it doesn't come up to their standards, and for that I apologize. I don't have the energy or time (not to mention the ability to sit in a chair for hours; pain level limits that), to produce perfect mockups. Though I admire and envy those who do. I have made some modest improvements, mostly by realizing that in manually panning my string libraries, I am losing much of the signal. I have also moved the basses in more to where they are more resonant. The reason I was panning everything is that I use different libraries, and some of them have widely varying seating plans. But I have hit upon a scheme that allows me to use them mostly in their native positions, with the exception of the pizz. basses, as they are from the Vienna Special Edition library, which is not pre-panned. So they have to panned. but Vienna has power panning, where you can pan without losing signal. We'll see how it goes. While music comes naturally to me, as to all here, the other stuff does not. I can be a real dufus when it comes to the technical side of things. And I'm not getting any younger. any improvements from here on out are going to be incremental. Addendum: re: my speaker setup, they are not computer speakers, but a three-way system with M-Audio BX5 monitors and a Mackie sub. I meant "computer speakers" in the sense that thye are connected to my computer. although the way my music sounds now, I can understand why someone would think they are just computer speakers. I promise, it is going to get better. But keep in mind, better is a relative term.

Thanks Ed, I appreciate it. But you know, as a musician, we're all our own worst critics...

Thanks Joe. I was planning on posting it here and another place on Easter, for the benefit of those who celebrate the holiday but couldn't get to church, but when I heard it on my other sound systems, I knew I had more work to do.

Wow, thank you very much, Rob, that was really informative. I would love to have my mixes sound as good as yours. sometimes I wonder if the style I compose in has something to do with it. I don't have much dynamic variation in my music. I tend to write stuff that's on the quieter side. Or maybe my samples aren't good enough. Anyway, I will keep re-reading your advice, there's a lot there. I've already read it three times, and again I really appreciate your taking the time to help me out here.

If only it was that easy... I've been doing some research, and one thing I saw was to put the basses closer in, having them too far to the side loses too much signal. Here's another brick wall I'm running into: I use different orchestral libraries. Most are recorded in-situ or position, so theoretically you don't have to pan them. Unless, you mix them with other libraries that have different seating arrangements. Like, Vienna tends to have the basses on the left; most others have them on the right. There can also be differences with the two violin groups. But moving them out of their "native" positions makes me nervous, as now I'm changing their position in the room they were recorded in. but that's what I do, I can't have the basses sometimes on the left and sometimes on the right. It seems the more I try to experiment, the more confused I get.

Great! Where can I get one of those?

Hi Tim, of course I recognize you, both from here and the Ning forum. Thanks for all the great suggestions. I'll take them into consideration. I figured I needed to re-set my sub-woofer setup. I have also noticed the lack of bass, but when I'm working it's so overwhelming I have to keep it low. I usually use a the Sonar LP-64 EQ on the master, and increase the bass there some. I recently downloaded the free Ozone elements suite, courtesy of Sweetwater. but it seems like over-kill, and much more designed with loud pop/rock etc in mind. So I have yet to use it. I mean I've tried it, but it just made everything extremely loud.

OK, you asked for it: https://app.box.com/s/s2mb484mubt2zxg9o1gq2zke17b9uu6f It's the first movement of Three Easter Scenes, which I just completed.

I've heard Jerry's stuff before, even emailed him once or twice, but never really studied how he does it. I'll check out the thread you posted.

I'm coming to the conclusion that it is. I work my butt off for months, make a wave or mp3 file that sounds decent on my computer speakers, but when I play it on anything else, it sounds terrible. I know you're supposed to do it so it sounds good on anything, but how does one do that? If I make a mix that works on my M-Audio-Mackie-sub setup, how is it going to sound good on my big tower stereo system speakers? Or bookshelf speakers? No one ever tells you how to do that; just that you have to do it. The vast majority of mixing and mastering tutorials are for non-classical music. I've done many. I've tried many approaches over the years. I still keep producing tinny, flat mixes. My samples are pretty good: Vienna Special Edition, Vienna Appasionata Strings; Cinematic Strings 2; EWQL Sym. Orch. Gold. Plus some Garritan and Dim Pro stuff. I have a UR-22 audio interface from Steinberg. I know that's not the best, but for pure midi why would I need anything better? I am not recording any audio whatsoever. I'm considering giving up and just using notation software from here on in. Maybe I'll decide to pay someone to make a recording that actually sounds good of my music. My system is an i7 with 32 BG ram. That's not the problem. Maybe my hearing is going, but then I never made any decent mixes even 20 years ago. Keep in mind, I'm doing purely orchestral classical music, many instruments in the mix. Here's an example of what I'm up against: I know you're supposed to use more reverb to simulate depth. OK, so you have a string group, Violins 1, Violins 2, Violas, Cellos and Bass. So, the violins are in front. so, put more reverb on the others. but how much? No one ever tells you that. Is it a certain percentage? Is it that I need to just listen and wing it? I can't trust my hearing anymore. Then there's panning. I've spent dozens of hours trying various schemes. Also tutorials. but accurately simulating a full classical orchestra on a computer with some software just doesn't seem to work. Guess I'm just venting. I don't really expect a solution. Probably the best advice would be to just give up. Figure out some other way to spend my time. Maybe go back to just writing poetry. At least I have the computer skills needed for that...

An update on this: it seems that saving anywhere other than C drive brings on the slow-saving gremlin. Oddly, if I rename the piece, then it starts saving normally again. No clue what that's about, but it is a workaround, albeit a rather weird one.

I just log off and on if this happens. Hopefully though I'll remember the other suggestions next time. but probably I won't...

Thanks again Bitflipper. I'll have to bite the bullet at some point. It's not so much the price, it's more the hassle of all I have to do to get several orchestral libraries up and running, not to mention reinstalling Windows. anyway, I did a little research on slow-saving in Windows 7, in general, as the problem has returned. One thing that caught my eye was that saving on USB drives can result in corruption. In fact, I had been doing that, and now seem to recall that the slow-saving may have started then. So I went back to my old Glyph external drive. now I'm wondering if that too is suspect. I did some things to try to improve the situation yesterday, and ended up making things much worse. I had to do a system restore, and in safe mode at that. Now things seem fine, and the project is saving OK, but I'm afraid to use the Glyph now. I may go back to using a CD. Or I could save a copy on the D drive, which has my samples. It's a 1 TB drive so there's plenty of room. Anyone have any thoughts on these ideas?

Thanks for all that great info. Fortunately I only need to use one Kontakt instance, with just 5 instruments on it (Cinematic Strings). That loads quite fast. The hogs are East West Play, and especially the Vienna Ensemble player. Still, my projects load in about 5 minutes, but in our time-conscious, instant gratification mindset, that seems like an eternity. And I don't have any games on this computer; I don't want anything to divert me from working. So I either sit and twiddle my thumbs, or watch a few minutes of whatever game is on TV. Which is, of course, these days just reruns of Tom Brady super bowls, which I have already seen too much of (although I live in Maine, I'm a Pittsburgh Steelers fan. I've never frozen an instrument, but that's a good idea. I do have a tambourine and triangle on the Vienna Player, and Cymbals on Play. They could certainly be frozen as I rarely need to adjust them. I also do follow your advice in assigning simple percussion instruments to less resource-Hungary synths. In fact, I usually just use the Garritan stuff, it's decent and the Aria player loads in seconds. On this project however I needed more oomph for them as there's a lot going on in this piece. As for SSD's when I finish this project I was thinking of getting one for the C drive. however, the WD Black hard drives on this rig, though 6 years old, continue to perform perfectly, so I may just wait until they die. Or I could get SSD's up and running and use the others as backups, I guess. I do plan on updating the Play synth before my next project, in case that improves load times for my EW instruments (EWSO Gold).

I did some experimenting. Hibernating results in the slow load times, just like sleep. I also realized that hibernation is what happens when I have a power failure. When I start up, it takes forever, and I think my system is borked, but then it eventually does start. I don't know if hibernating is the default action for W7 Pro in case of poer failure, or if I had it set to hibernate when I push the power button. I decided to set it to "do nothing" when power button is pushed, as I use the start menu to shutdown, log off etc.

As for the memory loss, I got both kinds, Bitflipper. Like many of us old Cakewalk guys here. As for Ram, I do have 32 GB. 16 was not enough, upgrading to 32 did help substantially, especially with things like clipping and distortions. I'll keep in mind the need to restart periodically. I'm sure weekly would do it, but I'll probably let it slide, like I do most things....

Not sure, but it does help when a project won't open quickly for some reason. What I mean is, sometimes I work on a project, close it, and try to open another one immediately, but nothing happens. Logging off and on does help in that case.

I know I marked this solved, but the problem returned. However, I think I know now what it is. So, in case this applies to anyone else, I don't shutdown my computer completely most of the time, I just suspend. That way my large orchestral projects load much faster. But this seems to eventually cause slow saving for some reason. Fortunately, the fix is easy: Just restart periodically.

Thanks, I found it just before you posted this. Both you and Promidi get a like!