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Mad Musicologist

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Posts posted by Mad Musicologist

  1. Thankx, Jackson White, for your reply.

    I will check soonest.

    Since I needed to finish the track in progress, I did a rather awful thing: I muted the Kick[BFD3 out]channel and inserted "Session Drummer", only for the kick. It worked well after some tweaks. But, since I do not wish to repeat that procedure, I shall check to have a more elegant and professional solution.

  2. Coming in again for the same topic.

    Using BFD3 as VSTi in Cakewalk Sonar, I wish to process the drum tracks not as a full mix output for cakewalk, but I wish to process each BFD3 output "solo".

    So I have kick, snare, and hihat as mono channels in BFD3, Toms, cymbals and percussion as stereo channels. I get 6 outputs.

    In Sonar, I have correspondingly 6 instrument tracks "Perc.", Cymb.", "Toms", "Hihat", Snare", and "Kick".

    My trouble now is it seems I mixed something completely up: I can solo each channel and hear it clearly, but at a quite low level. However, when I solo "Kick", I have them all, and some sound heavily distorted, overdriven, and all the EQ settings which are ideal for the kick make things bad for the rest. And, I cannot use sidechain compression for kick ==> bass. In the complete mix, I actually do not hera very much of the drumset.

    I turned off "bleed" in each and every single piece of my BFD3-kit.

  3. Hi there.

    Is there any player on VST instrument basis that can be used universally?

    For Garritan I need Aria.

    For NI I need at least Kontakt player.

    There are the built-in sounds of Dimension pro.

    Sometimes it's possible to open some instruments from the Dimension Pro Library in Aria.

    But Aria is not fully functional, not reliable to full extent.

    This brings me to the idea there  could be a universal VST instrument that works like a browser which "translates" the files for ARIA and those for NI and, and, and, to "it's own language" so all the libraries were accessible through that one player. (I think more than the usual 16 channels aren't possible anyway before reforming and expanding MIDI standards.)

    Any suggestions?

    Or is my question a suggestion for the ingenious developpiong team @ Bandlab / Sonar?

    (There might be some people shouting about copyrights. But hey, all those players are available for free anyway.)


    • Like 1
  4. 12 hours ago, User 905133 said:


    BTW, when looking for a manual online that matched my Pentagon I, I stumbled onto an old trick I had read and tested ages ago--using Pentagon I as a Vocoder.

    On the positive side, some of the patches made me not "hear" my  tinnitus--perfect for some projects I had been thinking about.


    That Vocoder thing might be interesting, User 905133,

    please, could you kindly furnish some details where to look and click?

    Sorry to read you are being harrassed by Tinnitus. That's really an annoyance.

  5. 31 minutes ago, HIBI said:

    I don't know why you had to switch off the FX inside BFD.
    In BFD, you can use General Trim in Tech panel per kit or the console volume faders to avoid clipping.

    I don't know why BFD crashes when saving preset. and I think saving kits is not necessary before saving presets.
    If you do that on BFD standalone mode, is it works well?

    Hello HIBI,

    first of all, I have changed to the original project and made all the adjustments there, deleting the old busses, creating new ones (without "send"), and all works fine. Thank you so much for your help and advice!

    As for that demo project, it    always crashes, but I finally had   saved the BFD preset with "no Fx" in the channel where the clippings occurred. So when I reopened my original project, BFD "had learned" what I was up to, and there are no more crashes. I shall delete the demo file, and    send the crash logs to FXpansion support - although I know that's a  tedious process. But they need to know on behalf of other users.

    Ok, I could have done that "repairing" of my preset in the standalone version, but I had believed it was more practical to do that in a Cakewalk project, because I could go on experimenting after correcting the preset. Anyway. It works well now, and I am happy again. 

  6. Hi again, HIBI.

    I deleted the old busses and created new ones, and saved the changes. So far so good.

    In search for the clipping youl told me of I found there were some fx inside BFD3 which I had to switch off . Trying to save the changes of that preset, BFD crashed and caused Sonar to crash as well. After 4rth relaunch I at least could save those internal Fx be switched off. But when I tried to set the snare track to "no fx", everything crashed again before I had a chance to save the new preset. Maybe I forst should try and save the kit, and then save the preset?

    I guess I will have to harrass BFD about that crash issue. It should be possible to set a track from "Fx" to "no Fx" without having a mess all around.

  7. Ok, got it working now. It is a phantastic instrument. Very different colors available.

    But I also had to do the registry trick.

    Now there  has been another very nice instrument in Sonar X3 studio, that was the "dreamstation". Alas, only in 32 bit.

    How I wish they'd  give that a rebirth in 64 bit version. It was a very handy application with a lot of modulation and filtering options.

  8. 1 hour ago, Jim Fogle said:

    @Mad Musicologist  You can access your Sonar online account here:  https://www.cakewalk.com/My-Account/Login

    Once you've logged in you can access "My Products" to download products and retrieve serial numbers or registration codes.  You can also download the Sonar Command Center software management application to manage the installation of newer products.

    If you do not have an online account you will need to use whatever Sonar installation media you have on hand.

    Since Pentagon is a plug-in accessory you'll need to install a software package that contains the Pentagon plug-in.  Once it's installed you can uninstall the package and keep the plug-in.

    Another point of concern is if the plug-in is 32 or 64 bit.  It will need to be 64 bit to work with Cakewalk unless you use bit bridge or Jbridge.

    Thanks, tried this, but did not find rgc pentagon in the list. If I had to reinstall Sonar x3 to have that, I think there should be easier options to get  it. 

  9. On 10/30/2019 at 10:51 AM, HIBI said:

    It's really easy. Just try it.

    1. Select Snare on the console in BFD3 to get focus.
    2. At right side [Bleed] section in BFD3, turn Return knob to the left.

    If you turn Return knob to the left, you will never hear Bass drum, Hi-Hat and Cymbals from Snare track.
    You can check these options behavior on BFD3 Operation Manual.

    Hi HIBI, thanks for answering my p.m.

    As you suggested, here's a demo I excerpted from my  troublesome project, concentrating on BFD3 and TTS-1.

    Interesting is, that with TTS-1 I do not have the channel loudness issue that I keep having with BFD3.

    In the demo file, I have soloed the snare which has the channeling I actually wish to use.

    If you unsolo it, you will hear that there is virtually no snare in the track audible, while other parts coming from BFD3 are well audible.

    And by this you will see  my trouble. ("You" meaning anyone who uses BFD3, of course.)

    BFD3_TTS1 Demo.cwp

  10. 2 hours ago, scook said:

    I do not recall the last time Pentagon I was sold separately. It was bundled with SONAR 5 Producer through X3 Producer. To get the plug-in run an advanced install of the 64bit version of any of those DAWs.

    The registry was never updated so it is one of those plug-ins that must be run as administrator or have its registry permissions modified to give Users full control of HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\rgc:audio Software\Dxi\Pentagon I


    That looks fine, but where do I get the download from, please? I do not recall having such a file in my PC.

  11. Hi dear all,

    in "good old times" Cakewalk (not yet by Bandlab) used to have a fine softsynth called "Pentagon", which could create a lot of nice timbres which I had to search for endlessly with  more recent synths. What I am up to, there's a (historic) description of that thing:


    Does anyone know: Is that still somewhere available after the Cakewalk (by Gibson) store had been closed?

    Or any recommendation which could replace that  thing?


    Not that I would want to say the times of Cakewalk @ Bandlab were bad ones - !   😉

  12. On 10/30/2019 at 10:03 AM, ChernobylStudios said:

    I don't have BFD3 so I can't do it myself to test. But I would, before anything else, to double check the routing. You've set up a really complicated routing system, so let's go back to Step 1. And then let's go through this checklist:

    • When you create a multiple-output routing of BFD3 to Sonar, do all of the instruments work? 
    • If all of the instruments play through separate channels with an initial multi-out, if you solo the snare, does it play?
      • If no, something is wrong with the output routing settings.
      • If yes, Does drum kit bleed sound through the solo'd snare track?
    • Disable bleed in the BFD3 instrument if you'd like.
    • Create Snare Bus.
    • Route BFD3 Snare to Snare Bus.
      • Solo bus - do you hear the same exact audio that you did with initial routing?
    • Create Drum Submix bus.
    • Route drum channels to drum submix bus.

    I also wouldn't bother "thinking ahead" and creating FX Sends for reverbs or anything right now, first thing is to ensure the instrument loads and works properly with the routing system.

    Try that and let us know.

    Ok, another round of futile checks. Sorry.

    I get the single BFD3 outputs in Sonar: Kick, Snare, Hihat, Cymbals, Toms... But very faintly, when soloed.

    If all tracks are unsoloed, the only BFD3 instrument that's working is the kick. The others - I almost do not hear them.

    When I solo the snare, I hear it, and in the channel "BFD snare" the meters show it's totally overclipping at + 21 dB and more.  But whatever I try BFD Snare to "Out BFD snare", or to BFD master, even out to the soundcard out: I almost hear nothing. But the meters say in peaks something around - 2 dB. For that level, the snare is way too soft.

    Trying out the setup I initilly want:

    BFD _Snare --> out BFD snare --> BFD Master --> Master preview --> Master, I get following levels (in dB):

    22                    -->      -1,8                     -->        -13                      -->      -26,8                                - 33,9.     But the slide controls are at

    -3,0                 -->           0                      -->        -1,3                     -->            -2,9        -->                -2,9

    Where do all the signals go? 

    Yes, I've taken out all fx, really all. (Only the sidechain kick - > Bass I maintained: having everything unsoloed, that is the only drum track I hear.) But there are no compressors, no reverbs, delay... in the snare console. As if something would "eat  away" 3/4 of the signal. At least the kick doesn't "bleed" in the snare track now.

    C'mon, folks, I am still stuck here. Noone in for another hint where to look for erroneous setup? Pleazzzz.

  13. 1 hour ago, HIBI said:

    It's really easy. Just try it.

    1. Select Snare on the console in BFD3 to get focus.
    2. At right side [Bleed] section in BFD3, turn Return knob to the left.

    If you turn Return knob to the left, you will never hear Bass drum, Hi-Hat and Cymbals from Snare track.
    You can check these options behavior on BFD3 Operation Manual.

    Yes, that worked, but the result of my efforts I had described yesterday.

    I shall try all your suggestions from your previous post tonight, if possible.

    But thank you anyway for encouraging me to keep going.

  14. 11 hours ago, ChernobylStudios said:

    That sounds like normal drum bleed... is there an option in the instrument plugin itself to disable bleed?

    Well what wil happen if I disable bleed? 

    I have been looking up for threads that also deal with BFD3 and Sonar and found this one:


    and in the same source, another one entitled

    BFD3 - separate track outputs.

    I still have to work through them... For me it's clear that the mistake in the  setup is mine, but I have to find it.

    I'll keep you informed here, for further users encountering the same issue.

    _      _    _     _

    Some hours later:

    I'm not sure anymore that the  issue is inside BFD.  But I think it must be in Cakewalks routing. Whatever I try inside BFD about changing    channels, it does not change the BFD output. Even disabeling bleed: I solo the snare track, and hear the snares at very low level, together with some cymbals and the kick.

    Useless  trying tonight, I am dead tired, and all the fruitless efforts discourage me. I feel like dumping the entire project and never use that setup again. Sorry....


  15. 4 hours ago, HIBI said:

    According to ProChannel EQ in the Track Inspector, seems it's getting signal.
    If disabling plugins on "out BFD Snare" bus C, you can hear snare sound?
    FX Chain maybe contain a plugin which is in the way the signal?

    Now it's getting signal, but I still hear all very faintly, also the kicks and cymbals, although I have only the snare soloed

    Disabeling   plugins on "out BFD Snare" bus C does not change anything really. I checked every plugin in the rows. 

    Next evening I will check if there is something inside BFD going wrong, although I am re-checking that with every effort I start. Maybe I should even reload the affected kit parts.

    Thankx, though...

  16. 1 hour ago, HIBI said:

    I don't think that following three SENDs are needed as @ChernobylStudios said.

    • SENDs on Track 17 - BFD_Snare (to BFD Snare bus)
    • SENDs on Track 23 - Z3TA+2_64 1 (to BassBus)
    • SENDs on Bus C - BFD Snare (to BFD Master bus F)

    These are correctly routed in In/Out module already. So if you are also using SENDs is like double routing to same bus.

    Thanks, Hibi, but that doesn't change much. 

    The only way I get to hear the snare is when I route channel 17 to "Master". But doing so, I always also hear faintly the kicks, and the cymbals. 

    Here's my newest setup-screenshot:

    CW sends and Busses 3rd version.jpg

  17. 18 hours ago, MagBass said:

    As Noel said, that doesn't matter at all.  I forgot to note that I was not able to get any output when I assigned the BFD snare to a mono internal output, no matter how I tried to pick it up.  I had to send the snare to a stereo output in BFD, then CbB would pick it up.  I changed the interleave on the CbB console track to mono.  In the shot below, the snare is soloed in BFD so I could make sure I was only seeing the snare activity:


    I think Chernobyl is on to something with those sends...


    Thankx again, Mag Bass, I shall try now what you suggest: All the other stuff made problems worse. The drums are almost completely faded away, and if I solo for example the snare, I still hear the hihat, the kick...  Something is really screwed up here. So I'll check now the thing with the stereo  out in BFD.

    _  _  _  _

    No, that doesn't change anything. Only when I rout all the drum channels stright to "Master", I get them right. But then I can't Fx them anymore.

  18. 19 hours ago, ChernobylStudios said:

    What are you sending here? These are FX sends, and what I see is you may be trying to use them as sends to busses. The only routing you need to do is below in the channel strip where it says "Output", where you already have everything correctly routed.

    I would disable these and see what happens.


    Sorry for asking back.

    You mean I should have the Fx  only in the busses, and not in the tracks? What exactly do you mean when saying, "I would disable these..."

    I intend to have some Fx exclusively for one track, and others in the busses, affecting the sounds of more instruments (tracks).

  19. 19 hours ago, Noel Borthwick said:

    Bus names are not important. I see that you have some buses and tracks soloed. If you unsolo everything does it work?

    Thanks, Noel,

    When I have unsoloed everything in this project, I do  hear the snare very faintly, I can see levels, but when changing the volume of the track that doesn't change the loudness. 

    But I shall see the other comments first now and check them out.

    At least I know that I do not have to change the bus name.

  20. 44 minutes ago, MagBass said:

    I'm sure this doesn't help you, but I followed your routing and it's working fine here.  Audio out at every step.  If you could collapse the ProChannels and show the Channel Inputs and Outputs (and maybe make all console strips narrow), we might get a better picture of what you've got going on.

    Thankx, MagBass, for following up.

    In my previous post you see the channel routing inside BFD.

    Here comes the narrowed Cakewalk channeling screenshot:

    Is it possible that Cakewalk dislikes me giving the bus name too similar to the source channel (BFD_snare vs. BFD Snare)?

    CW sends and Busses 2nd version.jpg

  21. 1 hour ago, ChernobylStudios said:

    Hey there,

    Could you show several screenshots of your routing? BFD --> Snare --> Snare --> Master. etc.

    I'm not immediately sure why it's not working.

    Thankx for following up. Here my BFD screenshot re. internal routing. The other screenshot comes in the following reply.

    BFD3 routing for snare.png

  22. Hi all,

    I'm puzzled again, trying to find what I am doing wrong for hours now.

    Using BFD Drums,  I have routed inside BFD one mono out  channel for the snare.

    I have the channel, called BFD_Snare     in CbD, and when the snare is playing, I see there is activity. 

    Now for mixing with some Fx, I routed the BFD_Snare channel to a stereo bus  which I called BFD Snare

    this bus is being routed to a new bus I alled BFD_Master (I intend to get a smooth drum mix    which I then route to the  bus "Master Preview" where I can set some  mastering fx before this bus goes to the last channel "Master" in which I only control that there is no clipping .

    Thought that was a nice plan, but I keep having trouble getting any signal into the  bus   BFD Snare

    I do not see anything coming in there, and (of course) I do not hear anything. I checked all the routings again and again, and when I changed  the   BFD_Snare out routing to  BFD_Master, I could hear my  snare playing, when I changed back  to the setting   BFD_Snare   out    to   BFD Snare   there is silence again.

    And I can't find  why the setting doesn't work.

    Help, please...




    CW sends and Busses.jpg

  23. Hi friends,

    somehow I'm stuck with using BFD3 drums with multiple outputs in Sonar for  processing each part of the instrument with   balanced loudness.

    However, all instruments of the set are sounding very low, at the same time the level shown in the meters is extremely too  loud to process.

    So I don't know what am I overlooking in the instrument setup. 

    Please give me some information  how to get out of this. Thankx.

  24. Thanks to all for answering.

    Meanwhile, the solution came when I had that notification "audio engine unexpectedly stopped" for the first time. There was a link to the help site, where I had found what you both recommend: increase buffer.

    And I located the plugin responsible. Is was the LB-EQ. Indeed, it has a "lookout", but I hadn't activated that. It wasn't a great loss to the mix quality, since LB-EQ is fantastic for "even" mixes, like classics or jazz. For the dub sound with heavy bass, it is too nivellating, the bass loses punch dramatically - it might be I did not find out how to avoid this when using LB-EQ. 

    Only one question @ CJ Jacobson: "You could also have the dropoutsec in your .ini file set to low" - you mean; too low, or should I change it to "low"? Anyway, I did not yet dare to change anything in the .ini file. 

    So everything is ok so far, issue solved.

    Thankx again.

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