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They should bring everyone's plugins version to 14 for free for this fiasco

https://www.pro-tools-expert.com/production-expert-1/waves-announce-reinstatement-of-perpetual-and-wup?utm_source=convertkit&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Waves+Announce+Reinstatement+Of+Perpetual+And+WUP+? - 10406459

So it was all some manager’s magic to make us register all those plugins we had lying around

WUP. The new and improved alternative to a subscription.

That didn't take long

New free plugin from Wavesfactory Flash v1.0.0 is a transient shaper plugin for Windows and macOS Download it here: https://www.wavesfactory.com/free-audio-plugins/flash/

I’m just waiting for something along the lines of: “In celebration of welcoming back perpetual licenses, and as our way of saying we’re sorry, we’re pleased to present all of our long-time loyalty users with a record-low discount price of $28.99 across our entire library of plugins!…”

Waves is dead to me…..done with them

It's not mine, for reasons already stated. Audio software is tools I use in a hobby, just like my woodworking tools. I wouldn't own a miter saw or circular saw under subscription, nor would I own a guitar under subscription, because I want them around as need arises and inspiration strikes. And yes, with the advent of maker spaces, it is now possible to have access to such tools under a subscription model. It's just not going to happen that I'd pay for a subscription to anything that I might not use for weeks or even months at a time, and/or given my current financial situation, I could lose access to if I don't pay the fee. As it is now, if I have a rough month, all I need to do my #1 hobby is the headphones and interface I already own, including the computer, and the perpetual licenses I already own. Those things, plus whatever food and shelter, and my life could still be at least livable and my creative outlet would still be 100% doable. Wow, cool! Great to have this perspective. I myself am a veteran of the consumer and business software industry, as well as IT. So I have industry experience on the manufacturing side and consuming side of both. There are big differences in the markets for consumer and business software. For software that is in the critical path of a business' moneymaking operations, subscription/leasing is the way, and has been for a long time. From an accounting standpoint, it's better for companies to lease what they can, as well as, for publicly-traded ones, I think analysts like you better the less infrastructure you own. This. Subscriptions have the potential to be better for the product itself. Way back, 30 years ago when I was working in consumer software, I had the sudden insight that the way the traditional (non-subscription) consumer software business was set up, it actually worked against software quality as measured by program stability and the addition of annoyance-relieving smaller features that the veteran userbase often prefer. I think there has since been at least one book written about this, but at the time, it just popped into my head. The bad thing is that stability and smaller features are not what made money for these companies. What made money (in the form of attracting new and upgrade licenses) was new features. All coding costs money, and since coding for bug fixes and convenience features doesn't make any, they get shunted in priority. Build me the new features, then we'll revisit the longstanding bugs if there's time. Back then, release cycles were timed to important trade shows, and product managers were given bonuses for delivering the next version of the product with the latest features in time to make the deadline. I was a QA engineer, and my job was to find things wrong with the software. So the better I did my job, the greater the chance that I would cost my boss her bonus money by slowing down the process. This is one of the reasons that I had to stop doing QA. It was killing my soul. A subscription removes this disincentive mechanism. Revenue is ensured, so bugs can be addressed and features that the subscribers request can be added. The goal becomes retaining existing subscribers and attracting new ones, and bug fixes help retain subscribers. The howls of agony from the veteran users on their 3rd release with a well-known bug still present are more likely to go away. That's if the company is smart. It it's not, then "hey, the cash rolls in whether we improve it or not, so send the coders home." And, note to Cakewalk users: the license for Cakewalk by BandLab is a subscription. It says so in Wikipedia, so it must be true (I know, I wrote the CbB entry?). Seriously, it is a subscription license that must be renewed at least every 6 months. The difference with Cakewalk is that BandLab is paying for our subscriptions. Veteran Cakewalk/SONAR users can see the obvious benefits of being freed from having to grub for perpetual licenses: the program is as stable and smooth and fun to use and versatile as it's been since the X series came out, and maybe before. That's what it's like having your favorite program backed by subscription. So I fully admit that it is (potentially) better for the product while still sure that I really, really don't want to buy a subscription for any audio software, for reasons already mentioned. This, again. I won't go into my beliefs about how stock market analysis is the scourge and poison of capitalism, but yes, this is all true. And after that insight that I had about the disincentives for quality in software manufacturing, I had another one, and swore to myself that I would never again work at a publicly-traded company. What you describe is the reason. When a company goes public, its focus changes from providing goods and/or services that they can sell for a profit to increasing shareholder value, which is entirely based on what a bunch of people in New York who know nothing about your business think your company is worth. Analysts don't care how many employees at what salaries are needed to make a quality product, they only look at how many you have and how much you pay them, and less is more in both cases. This is why a company whose stock is flat will get a new CEO, who immediately, without checking to see what impact it will have on operations, orders 10% in layoffs and elimination of all contract employees across the board, in every department from product development to facilities management. After which the stock price blips up (and upper management cash in a bunch of options). The employees at the company who don't know any better look at each other and think "we already didn't have enough people to do the work, we also lost some of our smartest people. This company is going to go into the toilet. How can the stock price be going UP??" And the new CEO is a hero to his bosses, despite the fact that he (and yes, it's still most often a "he") may have doomed the company's long term survival. Because the people pulling his strings don't care about quality product or long term viability or employee well-being or marketplace prestige or anything else but having that stock price go up. It's about "the big exit," (which happens when the stock gets attractive enough for another company to buy the place out and the early investors can cash out as multimillionaires). In modern times, especially in high tech startups who want to benefit from younger employees donating labor (in the form of working more than the agreed 8 hours a day, 5 days a week), companies give employees stock options so that they in effect become "shareholders." So their focus also shifts from "selling quality product" to "doing whatever drives up the stock price." The actual product or service is at that point no longer "the product." "The product" is the stock price. Cakewalk Inc. wasn't dissolved because SONAR and its other products were necessarily failures, it was dissolved because Gibson's stock price was in the toilet and they wanted a quick boost. Burn the division whose removal will result in the best effect on the stock price. Merry Xmas, stockholders. Note about the publicly-traded thing: A company doesn't have to be publicly traded for this scenario to play out. If they just want to sell the place, the same analysis criteria go into deciding what private companies make good acquisitions. They're also used when private companies seek loans. Explains a lot of unfathomable corporate decisions, don't it? ? In light of the above, it could be that Waves are just looking to sell and don't care about what happens to the company or its users after the first big quarter when the analysts put them on the "buy" lists and the owners' shares become worth a fortune. They might not give a hoot about its possible impact on the future sale of Waves' plug-ins. The new owners (or even the current ones) could decide that the real assets are the licensing partnerships with other manufacturers and sell the plug-in business.

Great to have perpetual licenses and WUP back. But in all honestly, I’ll be looking at UA native and other devs as my first option. Waves will have to earn my trust again. To the Waves Execs: There are things called surveys, polls and questionnaires. Use those next time.

Prolly CLA et.al. said "remove my name unless you bring back perpetual/WUP".

Have a look at these:- Bass Rider - TBProadio.de DynaRide2 Vocal Rider - TBProadio.de GainRider3

totally disagree - ignoring the 'value for money' aspect, there are some great sounding libraries in there. horses/courses obviously

I don't give a flying f**k about corporate bean-counter gymnastics. I want to own everything I have. Outright. Apologies to any in present company, but I despise bean counters. They ruin everything they touch. Once they start running a company instead of people who know anything about the real world beyond numbers, that is the end. They play their games to artificially inflate the value of the company and damn the product, damn the customer service and most of all damn the customers. I think corporate bean counters make lawyers and politicians look honorable.

That's the issue. It's hard to get trust back.

They’re backtracking now, LMAO Where are now the Waves advocates of our forum to tell us the tale about the Angry Minority ™ like this guy called @Carl Ewing who was sharing his wishful thinking yesterday, destroying all the critics of Waves sub move.

Tbh, Waves needs to do more than just backtrack their decision. Things are definitely NOT back to normal. They really betrayed our loyalty and trust. Give us free WUP for a year and I think I’d be able to forgive their horrible mistake.

There's a group list of alternative plug-ins here for people who already began moving away from them... https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1--yRZdWro_d28LmYNvaWsVct7CR6Y_KAULFU8wZ4SEI/edit#gid=0

Wait. WUP?

I knew this would happen. It was freaking illegal by LAW to take away people their bought licenses, for not registering it by a certain date. Or to take away ''WUP'' when customers also bought extra licenses because of ''WUP''. And then introduce ''Subscription-Only'' and sell ''Perpetual licenses'' till the last date still without any warning. I have emailed Waves multiple times to let them know, i wanted a refund for all my bought products if this was really happening. I did not agree on ANY of this, on the dates when i bought their products. There was no warning or any notification. Luckely customers are protected by LAW for these cases/scams, when companies change agreements/policies afterhands. I know from my other topic that Fleer and i , and some others gave away some free licenses away on the forum. Well, i Hope someone has fun with it now

Yo time for new WUP!

From the Waves Site https://www.waves.com/news/perpetual-waves-licenses-are-back

Hotfix that contains a blocker for 3.3.0. This hotfix marks the last stable compatible version for users on Mac OS 10.14. This release will block users from auto-updating NA2 when on an incompatible OS, and allowing users who cannot run later versions of Reaktor or Kontakt to install their content products without being required to install Kontakt or Reaktor. ADDED / IMPROVED Disable auto update for users on incompatible OSes Allow users to install content products without also downloading Kontakt/Reaktor if the latest version of either is not installed

Run Native Access to update

Get it here https://glitchedtones.com/products/tape-cassette-2-vst-au-plugin-free

Me too. I'm out never to return. "Fool me once . . ." I got an email this morning from Kazrog with this subject line: :Final hours: "perpetually" yours forever ?" You gotta love it.

Sore losers This is good news for perpetual license owners, but trust was already lost. At least subscription enthusiasm among other audio plugins companies was killed by Waves wrong move. Must have been a great lesson for all of them once and for all. Having in mind that most companies are doing their best to promote their products on forums in the form of “user” comments, it was an earthquake what happened everywhere from Cakewalk Discuss, to KVR, Gearspace and VI-Control communities. Probably the damage was fatal to Waves. Who’ll dare to be the next one?

After the Waves sub-only fiasco other plugin dev companies will think twice before following the Waves steps. Couldn’t be happier. AVID, I hope that you’re taking notes now

The people I feel bad for now are the folks like Fleer and others who were just giving away serials not just a week ago. They are the ones who got screwed now....

I am sure they have done some permanent damage with the way cut to subscription only without any direct warning, but they will make some short term profits from guys like me. I will end up Wupping my oldest plugins in case they do something like this again. I will certainly be leery of future purchases with Waves.

Ha Ha! Ha!! Ha!!!!

That criticism must have damaged them far more than they thought - and it was well deserved in my view. They tried to stiff their users. It leaves a very bitter taste in my mouth - I'll never trust them again.

Didn't someone say that this would happen so that we would all be happy with WUP-ing? Will it stop the rot or are Waves finished? I personally only use about dozen of their products (all V13) and had thought about going down the WUP route. After the weekend, I've sourced almost all similar VSTs (some free) and will probably go with them. Once bitten, twice shy!

oi vey.

Run the Spitifre App and select "LABS" then "Not Installed" to download

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To reiterate a point others have made - Not all subscriptions are the same, "taking a perpetual software company to a subscription model" isn't a pattern that you can apply to some random software and expect similar outcomes. E.g., (1) The perception of leases/rental/subscriptions is different depending on your target market, e.g., consumers or businesses (2) Subscriptions where when you stop paying you lose access to a significant amount of previous work you have created are fundamentally different from the opposite case of subscriptions. Netflix, Hulu, Disney+, etc. - There is no creation, once you've watched whatever you want you can stop it and lose nothing you've done Microsoft Office 365 - You create documents but, if you stop the subscription the documents can still be opened with quite a few compatible packages (and you would typically go through a transitional period to ensure there aren't critical compatibility bugs), and you can go back to a perpetual license Office if you prefer. Yes, for the above cases there is inconvenience costs of stopping the subscription but it is not comparable to the potential disruption from stopping a waves subscription where, if you have a previous project/session and you want to make some changes even if it is in a plugin that is not waves, that won't be an option if you don't have an active Waves subscription Adobe CC is probably a more similar example of what Waves is attempting BUT, they were discussing it for at least 6 years before it actually happened, Waves made the change in one of the worst possible ways: "As of right now and without any warning we are turning back on our previous commitments" (which are still shown on the website, as posted earlier in this thread but they couldn't care less), "you won't be able to renew your support contracts", "you will no longer be able to renew your rights to a 2nd license as you used to", "you will no longer be able to renew your rights to transfer licenses as you used to", "if you install the newer version you will lose your right to use the older one", "your only options are to accept our conditions or informing us in writing that you're canceling your license" (but we're not saying that you're getting anything back). I hope that there is a (class action?) lawsuit where a judge ends up telling Waves that they have to issue a refund, calculated at the latest advertised retail price, to anybody who informs them in writing of the desire to terminate their license agreements because of not agreeing to the new terms. There are certain implicit expectations of what is "normal behavior" (e.g., providing sufficient notice before doing drastic changes like this) and, even if the contract is craftily worded and it's not a breach of contract, when a company breaks those expectations, customers will react quite negatively, e.g., warning every potential new customer that this is a company from which abnormal behavior can be expected. The ill will can also encourage the hacking/cracking of their licensing system (as a software developer I generally try to discourage people from pirating software but now, if I hear that someone is using pirated Waves software, I won't bother to say anything) I've said in a previous post that people will forget if Waves turns around more or less quickly but, the longer they take the worse it can end. There is a certain deja-vu with how Windows 8 managed to alienate a really large percentage of users. Not long afterwards, Steven Sinofsky was no longer an employee of Microsoft, and Windows 8.1 came out, with the return of the Start button. (Sinofski was the president of the Windows Division at the time, and the highest ranking person who was actively responsible for the decision, against plenty of pushback and warnings that removing the Start button was a bad idea)

You could apply trimming to the clips to shorten them to their new extents. Just right click on the clip and select "Apply Trimming". This command is selection based, so if you want to apply to more than one clip, just select the other clips before executing the command.

For one thing, at least at this moment, the current release of Waves products are fully tested, certified and guaranteed to work with the latest version of every OS they run on. So the risk at this moment in updating your OS to Windows 10 or 11 (or whatever the latest Mac OS version is) is nil in regard to Waves plug-in compatibility. Since you're a hobbyist, I assume that you use your computer for things other than running a DAW with only Waves plug-ins? The longer you stall updating your system, the more painful it will be when you are inevitably compelled to do so. Have you frozen every piece of software on the computer at a single point in time? Anything else you want to update will at some point stop working under an older OS. If all you do is DAW stuff on this system, and you have frozen it in time at a certain point, and you're happy with it's current capabilities, then, sure, whatever, run the wheels off of it and when they do fall off, build a completely new system and start over. For most other people, it's a cost:benefit ratio. There are definitely risks to continuing to run a computer system on an OS that is no longer supported. And while we have all heard the hearsay about "the latest Windows update broke my whatever," I've had a Windows update negatively impact my system exactly once in my 30 years of using Windows, and it had nothing to do with my DAW or any audio software, and was addressed in the next hotfix. How many times have you heard (and I mean directly from the person it happened to) from someone that a Windows update broke a plug-in? In my observations, the only things that Windows updates ever break are drivers. And those issues are typically addressed quickly by the hardware manufacturer. Again, I've never had an application negatively affected by a Windows update, and I once took my DAW system from Windows 7 to Windows 10 when the Cakewalk devs informed me that Windows 7 was no longer officially supported. As is typical with new Windows 10 installations, it needed about 48 hours of sitting and sorting things out before performance was back up to speed, but after this, performance was better than under Windows 7. I also had more than one piece of old hardware laying around that had long since stopped working on XP or Windows 7 that started working again with Windows 10. So it went the opposite way: upgrading Windows fixed driver compatibility and saved me from having to dumpster a perfectly good flatbed scanner. But we all have comfort zones, part of mine includes keeping my system updated. Over my years of occasional use of Waves plug-ins, they have been rock solid across their updates and Windows' and all of my plug-in hosts, and some of mine go back to v.10. If I had fears about Windows updates, Windows 10 Pro licenses can be had for about $6 and will let you stop updates indefinitely. I once tried collaborating with someone who had frozen their lovely Mac Pro tower on an earlier version of MacOS despite it being compatible with (at the time, current) Mojave. He was a Pro Tools user who was in (not uncommon at the time) Pro Tools terror at updating anything because Pro Tools was (rightly) known for getting bricked by MacOS updates. So he was stuck on whatever the Pro Tools version was before they switched to AAX. I was forever sending him files and links to freebie plug-in and other audio software deals only for him to tell me that they wouldn't work on his system. Stuff like 24bit FLAC's and MediaHuman Audio Converter. Finally in frustration, I researched the situation for hours and sold him on the idea of updating both Pro Tools and the OS, because from what I could make out, Avid had finally gotten their act together. He bought a 3 terabyte backup drive so that we could entire clone his current setup and went forth. Not a hitch. Not a single issue, and both the computer and PT worked so much better that he was overjoyed. For Windows systems, one of Microsoft's biggest selling points for Windows is backward compatibility. They sell tons of licenses (maybe the bulk) to businesses who can't afford to have their legacy apps break. And by "can't afford," I mean it could be disastrous in some cases. There are companies who depend on software that if it had a single hour of downtime, would cost them millions. This isn't "I booked a session with an important client and had to cancel because Manny Algae's All-In-One Vocal Effect was on the fritz," this is "we lost our scheduling program and now 5000 banks won't have security guards until it's fixed." Long answer, but that covers it.

Picked up SpecOps on the second round, which somehow had eluded me before this- was between that and Keemun Bass. We’re really down to seeds and stems at this point.

I thought you could move licenses between machines with a usb key.

According to the Pro Tools newsletter the popular answer is no since Waves is a single machine license and would require 2 subs if you also do work on a laptop,

He makes a good suggestion.