Program Change - Preset Number Info on Event List.

[carlo]

Hello friends, I would like to know if there is any way to locate the preset number chosen in a specific VST that is not installed on the machine? For example: I have the Predator 3 plugin installed, and the old project refers to the old Predator 2! Is there any way to view the Program Change number in the MIDI track events? I've already looked in the Event List, but there's nothing related to the Preset number, only note information! I have many old projects that I need to finish, and some older VSTs are not on the machine because they were replaced by newer versions. Thank you.

[Amberwolf]

If you didn't use bank/patch changes, and didn't save the preset separately from the project as an FXB or FXB file to manually load into the plugin, then the preset data is simply part of the project data that would be fed into the plugin itself directly and isn't user accessible.  If the plugin isn't installed, and you just get the "missing plugin" dialog for it, the preset info is not sent anywhere becuse there's nowhere to send it. 

If the new version of the plugin is so badly designed that it doesn't understand or accept data intended for it's previous versions, then that data is "lost", in that there is nowhere for you to retrieve it from. 

To get that data back you'd have to install the old version of the plugin that the data was intended for/came from, and load the version of the project that still asked for it (hasn't yet been replaced by the new one).   

 

Then you could try saving the state as an FXP (preset) or FXB (bank) and then see if that data will still load into the new version of the plugin.  My guess is it will not, because that's the same data Sonar would be sending it anyway so if it is not accepting it now it probably won't then either.   

At that point, you would have to manually recreate your preset by taking screenshots of all the controls in all the various parts of the plugin with the old version, and then try to figure out what those correspond to in the new version, and set those controls the same way.  It will probably still not sound the same if they've really changed it that much to not accept the old data, though. 

 

 

 

[Xoo]

Sometimes the preset name is visible too if you open the cwp file in a tezt editor.

Edited 5 hours ago by Xoo

[David Baay]

6 hours ago, Amberwolf said:

If the new version of the plugin is so badly designed that it doesn't understand or accept data intended for it's previous versions...

I think it's pretty standard in the industry to give new versions of synths a new plugin UID. This helps distinguish them and keeps the sound of an existing project from changing when the sound of the new version changes. But this also means that the DAW has no way of recognizing that they're essentially the same and doing an automatic substitution when you do want that.

For the OP's situation (which most of us have probably encountered at one time or another) it would be nice if Sonar provided an option with Replace Synth that tried to apply the patch parameters from the replaced synth to the new one, but this could get tricky if the synth parameters are no longer the same or a user tries to do it with completely unrelated synths.

As an example, Pianoteq tends to change its sound pretty dramatically with every major release, so you wouldn't want an automatic substitution to happen in a finished mix. The one time they made a big change in sound with a minor release (8.3) and no change in UID, they ended up having to provide users a way of loading the original v8.0 sounds to address this.

Edited 33 minutes ago by David Baay

[Bass Guitar]

Another example was Addictive Drums. When they released the VST 3 version none of my presets showed. I have at least 30. It  was blank. 

But it did seem to load up projects  with all the correct settings and kit pieces. 
 

I had to manually re save them which was becoming a PITB so I just reverted back to the VST 2 version. 
 

Last night I upgraded to the paid version of Steven Slate drums for only $50 Black Friday deals. I’ve lost interest in Addictive Drums. 
 

 this situation the OP is in has happened a few times to me so I am in the habit of freezing all my synths and using save as to store them in a safe place. That’s the way to make sure your sounds are  future proof. 
Ad then keep the old version installed and what you can do is put it on the excluded list. Then if you open a project that used it just re include it. 

 

[carlo]

I wonder where is the MIDI information sent for a vst located in Cakewalk project! Is it hidden somehow that we can't have access? I remember old times using Roland MC50 Sequencer that we inserted Program Changes for the hardware synths used. 

Thank you very much for the answers and the intention to help me!

 

Edited 2 hours ago by carlo

[carlo]

4 hours ago, Amberwolf said:

If you didn't use bank/patch changes, and didn't save the preset separately from the project as an FXB or FXB file to manually load into the plugin, then the preset data is simply part of the project data that would be fed into the plugin itself directly and isn't user accessible.  If the plugin isn't installed, and you just get the "missing plugin" dialog for it, the preset info is not sent anywhere becuse there's nowhere to send it. 

If the new version of the plugin is so badly designed that it doesn't understand or accept data intended for it's previous versions, then that data is "lost", in that there is nowhere for you to retrieve it from. 

To get that data back you'd have to install the old version of the plugin that the data was intended for/came from, and load the version of the project that still asked for it (hasn't yet been replaced by the new one).   

 

Then you could try saving the state as an FXP (preset) or FXB (bank) and then see if that data will still load into the new version of the plugin.  My guess is it will not, because that's the same data Sonar would be sending it anyway so if it is not accepting it now it probably won't then either.   

At that point, you would have to manually recreate your preset by taking screenshots of all the controls in all the various parts of the plugin with the old version, and then try to figure out what those correspond to in the new version, and set those controls the same way.  It will probably still not sound the same if they've really changed it that much to not accept the old data, though. 

 

 

 

Thank you.

What is a FXB file?

[Bass Guitar]

4 minutes ago, carlo said:

Thank you.

What is a FXB file?

Ya good question. 
 

For me coming from the Atari and DrT KCS and the original Atari Cubase I was used to entering that information in the Event List. 
When the Atari finally died in 2003 I was forced to go with a PC. I just so happened to have a copy of Cakewalk Guitar Studio. 
I found out the event list really sucked and couldn’t figure out how to edit or enter PG changes. That took 20 years to figure out. 

I gave up. If a download midi file had a PG or CC 7 event it drove me crazy. 
I found a free simple midi sequencing app and had no problem opening the file and editing it in that. 
I eventually learned that the track header was what overrides this data as well as if I deleted the empty space at the beginning of the track I regained control. 

But yes I too think that the Event list should be like it was in 1985 and should show all midi data, not just some. The Tempo isn’t even listed? 
 

They won’t be improving the event list, the Staff Veiw or the Playlist. The user base has changed. It’s all drag and drop pre made music now. 

[Bass Guitar]

I Googled it-Heres AI explains 
 

FBX is a proprietary file format (.fbx) developed by Autodesk for 3D content creation software. It is used to exchange data between different digital content creation (DCC) applications and is commonly used in game development, film, and general 3D production. 

While Cakewalk is primarily an audio and MIDI software, the context of an "FBX" file within it would likely relate to importing or exporting data that links with visual or game development elements (like 3D models or animation data) that use the FBX format. For example, a user might work with video within Cakewalk and need to ensure the project can be synced with assets in a 3D program.