Bus confusion

[Starship Krupa]

25 minutes ago, Bass Guitar said:

There's this  video I watched a while ago where he was telling people never to use plug ins that are tied exclusively to any particular Daw. It will make it hard to share projects with collaborators as well as future proofing your work if you switch Daw's down the road. 

I was actually very surprised at how many of my Cakewalk instrument collection open in any Daw. Like Dim Pro, Rapture and even the SI instruments.

That's exactly why I don't use DAW-locked plug-ins.

When the Cakewalk devs first murmured about porting the Sonitus suite to VST3 I told them why I don't use host-locked plug-ins if there is any alternative. The only one I regularly use is the ProChannel's QuadCurve EQ, because it's just so convenient and straightforward (and sounds good).

But I have and use multiple VST hosts that aren't competitors to Sonar (Vegas Pro, Audacity, Sound Forge), and there's no reason to use any host-locked processors. It would be like having a vacuum cleaner that only worked in my living room. Why would I bother with such a thing? No matter how well it worked, it wouldn't work enough better to have to learn a completely different set of controls, attachments, whatever. Even the simplest compressor or EQ is more complicated to learn than a vacuum cleaner. If you want something with simple controls and an uncluttered display, download Kilohearts Essentials for free. Those FX resemble traditional "stock" plug-ins in every way except for being host locked.

I think the solution they came up with, to have the Core FX usable in other hosts by using the same authentication system that Sonar uses, is pretty brilliant. I've never seen another company using it.

Cakewalk under Gibson got into the "plug-in business," where they were trying to sell their premium synths and processors outside of the SONAR ecosystem. PreSonus and Tracktion are making a run at this today.

The SI Instrument collection used to be available as a separate product. They were eventually surpassed by even free products, but they were decent enough for the time.

When the CA/2A compressor first came out, it got EXCELLENT reviews, some probably still consider it one of the best, most faithful LA/2A emulations. I think its algorithm still ships in Sonar Premium's PC module. It would be a great candidate for inclusion with Sonar Premium. LP-EQ, LP-MBEQ, Adaptive Limiter, these would all be great to have in Sonar Premium.

[Bass Guitar]

The Pro Channel quad cuve EQ ports over to Studio one’s version of a EQ  very accurately thanks to @azslow3 brilliant CPW2song  conversion tool. 
And I guess all the  instruments that Im finding work elsewhere are the ones I paid for in the Legacy days. 
As far as effects go I think I only ever used the Quad curve and the CA2A. 

[Starship Krupa]

7 hours ago, Bass Guitar said:

As far as effects go I think I only ever used the Quad curve and the CA2A

The CA/2A surely deserves to be on the market in some way or other.

I'd love to be able to use the QuadCurve outside the ProChannel. I don't know how feasible that is.

Here's an interesting article I just found from when the QuadCurve first came out:

https://noelborthwick.com/cakewalk/2012/03/09/quadcurve-eq-demystified/

I was looking for that EQ that copied UI of the SONAR/CbB/Sonar ProChannel EQ. It was entered in the KVR contest half a dozen years or so ago. An odd thing it was. It was only the compact PC module. I wondered why someone would do that at the time.

Ah, found it. Look familiar?

Edited Monday at 09:40 AM by Starship Krupa

[Glenn Stanton]

if you don't need the graphics, this EQ is excellent: https://www.wavefoundry.net/post/antelope-audio-releases-free-eq-plugin-veq-mg4 and free now...

[Amberwolf]

On 11/7/2025 at 1:02 AM, Cobus Prinsloo said:

Thank you, now for a potentially dumb question: how do I relay only the wet signal of Reverb directly to my Master bus?

BTW, a useful effect in some circumstances is to use Pre instead of Post for the send from your tracks to the wet-only reverb bus.  That way you can send a different level of reverb vs the track level, so you could even have a reverb-only section, where there is zero dry signal, only wet signal, such as for some ethereal washed out sound in a break in the song.   

Doing it this way means that if you automate the track levels you *also* have to automate the send levels the same way, since they're no longer modulated by the main volume fader itself, but it is worth the extra effort if you do this kind of thing a fair bit.

Otherwise it's easier to set the send to Post so that it "follows" your main fader and the wet sound tracks the level of the dry sound automagically. 

[Amberwolf]

I was interrupted in createing the post above by the schmoo needing attenshunals, so this is to complete the thought:

 

I use a variation of the technique for dramatic breaks in something where I want a sound (or all of them) to continue into the break in a way that isn't just holding hte notes. 

So, say the whole song stops for a moment, but rather than a complete cessation of sound, a reverb, or delay, or combination, takes all the sound and lets it wash and fade into the silence, and then *just* before it becomes inaudible, the song resumes.   

This usually requires a level of effect much higher than can be used during the song without washing out the song itself, so the effect bus itself gets turned way up uisng the slow fade in curve over a very short time just at the end of the sounds section, peaking as the silence begins.   It usually has to be done on the bus, rather than at the sends, partly to save work making all those envelopes, and partly because I don't want to alter how much is sent to the effect input, just how much of the effect is mixed into the main output.  

Then just as the sounds resume, the bus level is turned back down to where it was before. 

 

This can be used fora  washed out reverb fade, or if using a delay it can be used for a kind of stutter echo depending on the delay used.  Sometimes that echo is used to fade out, and sometimes it is used to grow from low intensity to max and then a total silence for a beat before resuming the sound.  The resumption itself can be a fade-in of a maxed out reverb from zero to full sound level, or a sample of taht, etc.

 

Sometiems it isn't total silence, and one of the tracks continue thru it, usually either a very low pitch sound or a very high one., often starting at a low level volume and rising hgiher until the track resumes, and again a tiny silence just before resuming can be dramatic. 

 

[Xoo]

I (over)do this technique too.

[Chaps]

31 minutes ago, Amberwolf said:

I use a variation of the technique for dramatic breaks in something where I want a sound (or all of them) to continue into the break in a way that isn't just holding the notes. 

 

 

I'm using a variation of that method in a current project. I recorded a chord of just guitar harmonics on one track, reversed it, attenuated the tail with volume automation (the attack) and used a send in pre mode to a long reverb (Valhalla Supermassive TriangulamHall) so the reverb increases at the very end of the chord. The reverb tail blends in with the rest of the tracks when they start. Here is what the chord sounds like.

[Amberwolf]

I like that-- it sounds almost orchestral, like a harp pluck leading into a choral sound.

[Chaps]

17 minutes ago, Amberwolf said:

I like that-- it sounds almost orchestral, like a harp pluck leading into a choral sound.

It turned out better than I expected, for sure.