SuperFreq Posted September 23 Share Posted September 23 (edited) Hey I'm working on a song and wondering if I should add bass. Here's a snippet. The idea was to keep it small, currently it's just drums, guitar, keys & vocals. But I feel like the bottom end is empty. Or is it just me? General crits & comments are welcome too! https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GoDbZHospsaZ1WObpqiFO0z2DvtUp4Jk/view?usp=sharing 10/08 update with DRY MIX: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1BXqjJH1FXyQQJeRV_FRybRVbQxsOmLTf/view?usp=sharing Edited Wednesday at 02:43 PM by SuperFreq 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT2 Posted September 24 Share Posted September 24 I am not listening to it on the best of speakers, but it seems to be missing something in the bottom. Either a bass or a synth drone. Kind of has a Yes/ Starcastle sound to it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msmcleod Posted September 24 Share Posted September 24 The first verse sounds fine without bass - it's a good contrast to the intro, but I'd bring one in after that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperFreq Posted September 24 Author Share Posted September 24 10 hours ago, DaveT2 said: I am not listening to it on the best of speakers, but it seems to be missing something in the bottom. Either a bass or a synth drone. Kind of has a Yes/ Starcastle sound to it. You just named my fave band (Yes) and although I'm not well versed in Starcastle I've heard the name a lot in prog circles. Thanks! 1 hour ago, msmcleod said: The first verse sounds fine without bass - it's a good contrast to the intro, but I'd bring one in after that. Yup I definitely wanted a contrast between the intro & first verse without coming to a full stop, so I'm glad you noticed! Originally I thought I could carry the rest of the song that way, but I think you're right. At some point it needs to build back up and bass would do it. Maybe not an actual bass guitar but I'll experiment with a synth drone like Dave suggested. The "bass" in the intro is sorta that: a low note on organ enhanced with an octave subsynth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT2 Posted September 24 Share Posted September 24 Yeah, check out Starcastle. They have a unique sound in the line of Yes. I am a big Yes fan as well. I am going to see the Steve Howe Yes tour soon. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaps Posted September 24 Share Posted September 24 Maybe a cello? Of course, I think cellos should be in everything. I blame Darling Violetta. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bats brew Posted September 25 Share Posted September 25 ask prince (i.e. when doves cry) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry T. Posted September 27 Share Posted September 27 Good song, a bass would help. imho, overall I think the instruments need to be clearer as there is too much muddiness and lack of distinctness of each instrument. I think it's an EQ issue that can be corrected easily. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperFreq Posted October 1 Author Share Posted October 1 On 9/24/2025 at 11:53 AM, DaveT2 said: I am going to see the Steve Howe Yes tour soon. Dude that would be a dream come true. I just checked tourdates and the closest they're coming to me is Atlantic City this weekend, but unfortunately I'm in a cash crunch and can't flip the 80 bills for the cheapest seats. I've never seen a Steve Howe incarnation of Yes live. It's my biggest regret because to me he is the defining member. On 9/24/2025 at 12:00 PM, Chaps said: Maybe a cello? Of course, I think cellos should be in everything. I blame Darling Violetta. Holy smokes, I actually play the cello so that should've been a no brainer but I just didn't consider it. Great suggestion, especially since a cello would cut through the mix better than a traditional bass or bass synth. On 9/25/2025 at 2:05 PM, bats brew said: ask prince (i.e. when doves cry) No joke man, that song is a huge inspiration because the instrumentation is so sparse and yet the mix is so full. Consciously or not, I try to go for that philosophy, but the longer I work on a mix the more crap I keep throwing in there. But I guess that's the story behind When Doves Cry too. Supposedly the original mix was a dense, unmanageable wall of sound until his engineer Peggy McCreary chucked half the instruments, effects & production. Maybe I should start chucking. On 9/27/2025 at 3:55 PM, Larry T. said: Good song, a bass would help. imho, overall I think the instruments need to be clearer as there is too much muddiness and lack of distinctness of each instrument. I think it's an EQ issue that can be corrected easily. Thanks! And I totally agree that the muddiness has gotten out of control. The problem is I've been picking at the song for literal years, using a hodgepodge of production strategies that don't really gel with each other. So it's just swamp. Maybe I'll try to strip off all EQ & effects just to make a totally raw mix, then I'll post back for EQ suggestions. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wookiee Posted October 4 Share Posted October 4 This Wookie's furry lugs, simple Triganic Pu's worth, is yes there is very little weight in the bottom end. To confirm what the furry lugs inform I looked at an FFS analysis shows it rolls of steeply from around 600 hZ. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bajan Blue Posted October 5 Share Posted October 5 Good song, a bass would help. imho, overall I think the instruments need to be clearer as there is too much muddiness and lack of distinctness of each instrument. I think it's an EQ issue that can be corrected easily. Thanks! And I totally agree that the muddiness has gotten out of control. The problem is I've been picking at the song for literal years, using a hodgepodge of production strategies that don't really gel with each other. So it's just swamp. Maybe I'll try to strip off all EQ & effects just to make a totally raw mix, then I'll post back for EQ suggestions. Hi - I do like this and agree it needs some bottom end Whenever I have a track like you mention here (been around for a while and you've tinkered with it for a long time) I set them aside, then when I come back to them I normally strip right back and start again with fresh ears and probably new plugins or updated plugins!! Cheeers Nigel 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperFreq Posted Wednesday at 02:41 PM Author Share Posted Wednesday at 02:41 PM On 10/4/2025 at 9:09 AM, Wookiee said: This Wookie's furry lugs, simple Triganic Pu's worth, is yes there is very little weight in the bottom end. To confirm what the furry lugs inform I looked at an FFS analysis shows it rolls of steeply from around 600 hZ. Thanks for that technical and wooknichal analysis. Ok it's settled then, I gotta do something about this (listen to dry mix below)... On 10/5/2025 at 9:48 AM, Bajan Blue said: Good song, a bass would help. imho, overall I think the instruments need to be clearer as there is too much muddiness and lack of distinctness of each instrument. I think it's an EQ issue that can be corrected easily. Thanks! And I totally agree that the muddiness has gotten out of control. The problem is I've been picking at the song for literal years, using a hodgepodge of production strategies that don't really gel with each other. So it's just swamp. Maybe I'll try to strip off all EQ & effects just to make a totally raw mix, then I'll post back for EQ suggestions. Hi - I do like this and agree it needs some bottom end Whenever I have a track like you mention here (been around for a while and you've tinkered with it for a long time) I set them aside, then when I come back to them I normally strip right back and start again with fresh ears and probably new plugins or updated plugins!! Cheeers Nigel Great advice, I can't make heads or tails of my mixing strategy since it's been evolving/contradicting itself for so long, so in frustration I just muted every effect bus so I can start over. A funny thing happened (to my ears). When I muted all the effects, suddenly the bass frequencies seemed to come back in? Particularly the bass drum seems to punch through a lot better. I still feel like I might need to add something (cello?) but it doesn't seem as hopeless as before. I dunno what do you guys think? Here's the whole song including 2 min intro, minus all FX & EQ except what might be on individual clips like the girl & intro drums. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1BXqjJH1FXyQQJeRV_FRybRVbQxsOmLTf/view?usp=sharing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sycle1 Posted Saturday at 08:09 AM Share Posted Saturday at 08:09 AM Personally I like the stark openess and space, it has very much a Peter Gabriel vibe. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUPAREELS Posted Saturday at 10:52 AM Share Posted Saturday at 10:52 AM 2 hours ago, sycle1 said: Personally I like the stark openess and space, it has very much a Peter Gabriel vibe. I have to agree with syce1 ... I invariably always listen to the last mix in these cases and for my money I'm hearing a great idea. I think my only crit would be your over use the female vox plug .. I find that overall the message ( lyrics ) is a though provoking one. ( You should listen to Nigel's advice ... he's portfolio tells it all ) I very often never comment on so called instrumentals, as these days it's far to easy to push a key on a chosen plug ..then another and so on but this I feel warrants a 7/10 ...For what it's worth I like it loads ... just work away from it a bit and come back a few months later .. see if all these comments help SupaReels_Music 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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