SuperFreq Posted September 23 Posted September 23 (edited) Hey I'm working on a song and wondering if I should add bass. Here's a snippet. The idea was to keep it small, currently it's just drums, guitar, keys & vocals. But I feel like the bottom end is empty. Or is it just me? General crits & comments are welcome too! https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GoDbZHospsaZ1WObpqiFO0z2DvtUp4Jk/view?usp=sharing 10/08 update with DRY MIX: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1BXqjJH1FXyQQJeRV_FRybRVbQxsOmLTf/view?usp=sharing Edited October 8 by SuperFreq 1
DaveT2 Posted September 24 Posted September 24 I am not listening to it on the best of speakers, but it seems to be missing something in the bottom. Either a bass or a synth drone. Kind of has a Yes/ Starcastle sound to it. 1
msmcleod Posted September 24 Posted September 24 The first verse sounds fine without bass - it's a good contrast to the intro, but I'd bring one in after that. 1
SuperFreq Posted September 24 Author Posted September 24 10 hours ago, DaveT2 said: I am not listening to it on the best of speakers, but it seems to be missing something in the bottom. Either a bass or a synth drone. Kind of has a Yes/ Starcastle sound to it. You just named my fave band (Yes) and although I'm not well versed in Starcastle I've heard the name a lot in prog circles. Thanks! 1 hour ago, msmcleod said: The first verse sounds fine without bass - it's a good contrast to the intro, but I'd bring one in after that. Yup I definitely wanted a contrast between the intro & first verse without coming to a full stop, so I'm glad you noticed! Originally I thought I could carry the rest of the song that way, but I think you're right. At some point it needs to build back up and bass would do it. Maybe not an actual bass guitar but I'll experiment with a synth drone like Dave suggested. The "bass" in the intro is sorta that: a low note on organ enhanced with an octave subsynth.
DaveT2 Posted September 24 Posted September 24 Yeah, check out Starcastle. They have a unique sound in the line of Yes. I am a big Yes fan as well. I am going to see the Steve Howe Yes tour soon. 1
Chaps Posted September 24 Posted September 24 Maybe a cello? Of course, I think cellos should be in everything. I blame Darling Violetta. 3 1
Larry T. Posted September 27 Posted September 27 Good song, a bass would help. imho, overall I think the instruments need to be clearer as there is too much muddiness and lack of distinctness of each instrument. I think it's an EQ issue that can be corrected easily. 1
SuperFreq Posted October 1 Author Posted October 1 On 9/24/2025 at 11:53 AM, DaveT2 said: I am going to see the Steve Howe Yes tour soon. Dude that would be a dream come true. I just checked tourdates and the closest they're coming to me is Atlantic City this weekend, but unfortunately I'm in a cash crunch and can't flip the 80 bills for the cheapest seats. I've never seen a Steve Howe incarnation of Yes live. It's my biggest regret because to me he is the defining member. On 9/24/2025 at 12:00 PM, Chaps said: Maybe a cello? Of course, I think cellos should be in everything. I blame Darling Violetta. Holy smokes, I actually play the cello so that should've been a no brainer but I just didn't consider it. Great suggestion, especially since a cello would cut through the mix better than a traditional bass or bass synth. On 9/25/2025 at 2:05 PM, bats brew said: ask prince (i.e. when doves cry) No joke man, that song is a huge inspiration because the instrumentation is so sparse and yet the mix is so full. Consciously or not, I try to go for that philosophy, but the longer I work on a mix the more crap I keep throwing in there. But I guess that's the story behind When Doves Cry too. Supposedly the original mix was a dense, unmanageable wall of sound until his engineer Peggy McCreary chucked half the instruments, effects & production. Maybe I should start chucking. On 9/27/2025 at 3:55 PM, Larry T. said: Good song, a bass would help. imho, overall I think the instruments need to be clearer as there is too much muddiness and lack of distinctness of each instrument. I think it's an EQ issue that can be corrected easily. Thanks! And I totally agree that the muddiness has gotten out of control. The problem is I've been picking at the song for literal years, using a hodgepodge of production strategies that don't really gel with each other. So it's just swamp. Maybe I'll try to strip off all EQ & effects just to make a totally raw mix, then I'll post back for EQ suggestions. 2
Wookiee Posted October 4 Posted October 4 This Wookie's furry lugs, simple Triganic Pu's worth, is yes there is very little weight in the bottom end. To confirm what the furry lugs inform I looked at an FFS analysis shows it rolls of steeply from around 600 hZ. 1
Bajan Blue Posted October 5 Posted October 5 Good song, a bass would help. imho, overall I think the instruments need to be clearer as there is too much muddiness and lack of distinctness of each instrument. I think it's an EQ issue that can be corrected easily. Thanks! And I totally agree that the muddiness has gotten out of control. The problem is I've been picking at the song for literal years, using a hodgepodge of production strategies that don't really gel with each other. So it's just swamp. Maybe I'll try to strip off all EQ & effects just to make a totally raw mix, then I'll post back for EQ suggestions. Hi - I do like this and agree it needs some bottom end Whenever I have a track like you mention here (been around for a while and you've tinkered with it for a long time) I set them aside, then when I come back to them I normally strip right back and start again with fresh ears and probably new plugins or updated plugins!! Cheeers Nigel 2
SuperFreq Posted October 8 Author Posted October 8 On 10/4/2025 at 9:09 AM, Wookiee said: This Wookie's furry lugs, simple Triganic Pu's worth, is yes there is very little weight in the bottom end. To confirm what the furry lugs inform I looked at an FFS analysis shows it rolls of steeply from around 600 hZ. Thanks for that technical and wooknichal analysis. Ok it's settled then, I gotta do something about this (listen to dry mix below)... On 10/5/2025 at 9:48 AM, Bajan Blue said: Good song, a bass would help. imho, overall I think the instruments need to be clearer as there is too much muddiness and lack of distinctness of each instrument. I think it's an EQ issue that can be corrected easily. Thanks! And I totally agree that the muddiness has gotten out of control. The problem is I've been picking at the song for literal years, using a hodgepodge of production strategies that don't really gel with each other. So it's just swamp. Maybe I'll try to strip off all EQ & effects just to make a totally raw mix, then I'll post back for EQ suggestions. Hi - I do like this and agree it needs some bottom end Whenever I have a track like you mention here (been around for a while and you've tinkered with it for a long time) I set them aside, then when I come back to them I normally strip right back and start again with fresh ears and probably new plugins or updated plugins!! Cheeers Nigel Great advice, I can't make heads or tails of my mixing strategy since it's been evolving/contradicting itself for so long, so in frustration I just muted every effect bus so I can start over. A funny thing happened (to my ears). When I muted all the effects, suddenly the bass frequencies seemed to come back in? Particularly the bass drum seems to punch through a lot better. I still feel like I might need to add something (cello?) but it doesn't seem as hopeless as before. I dunno what do you guys think? Here's the whole song including 2 min intro, minus all FX & EQ except what might be on individual clips like the girl & intro drums. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1BXqjJH1FXyQQJeRV_FRybRVbQxsOmLTf/view?usp=sharing
sycle1 Posted October 11 Posted October 11 Personally I like the stark openess and space, it has very much a Peter Gabriel vibe. 2
SUPAREELS Posted October 11 Posted October 11 2 hours ago, sycle1 said: Personally I like the stark openess and space, it has very much a Peter Gabriel vibe. I have to agree with syce1 ... I invariably always listen to the last mix in these cases and for my money I'm hearing a great idea. I think my only crit would be your over use the female vox plug .. I find that overall the message ( lyrics ) is a though provoking one. ( You should listen to Nigel's advice ... he's portfolio tells it all ) I very often never comment on so called instrumentals, as these days it's far to easy to push a key on a chosen plug ..then another and so on but this I feel warrants a 7/10 ...For what it's worth I like it loads ... just work away from it a bit and come back a few months later .. see if all these comments help SupaReels_Music 1
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