MIDI Controller and Remote CTRL

[Astraios]

What amazes me is that there's a multi-million dollar industry for MIDI controllers, represented at various music and audio trade shows around the world, yet I can only find one page on remote control in the Sonar manual, which is over 1,400 pages long...

Why is the topic of remote control so neglected? Over 15 years ago, I was amazed at how difficult and complicated it was to get anything working with my CME VX MIDI keyboard that involved more than just controlling volume and pan. The entire process is either not documented or only inadequately documented.

What surprises me most, though, is how many users have simply given up on the subject.

Edited August 30 by Astraios

[Astraios]

Hm, correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't even found a picture of the Remote CTRL window in the Sonar manual...

And by the way, can someone help me with the NRPN? I thought the NRPN consists of four parts: MSB 99 (coarse), LSB 98 (coarse), MSB 6 (fine), and LSB 38 (fine), but the Remote Control window only has one entry field?

 

 

[azslow3]

"Remote control" was superseded by other approach long time ago. In Cakewalk it is called "ACT".

(N)RPN is a protocol which allows way more parameters and better accuracy then standard MIDI CCs. Yes, technically it is using CCs you have mentioned. But logically it works as "A knob on my controller sends NRPN 20". So you specify "20" in the configuration (and hope the controller and Sonar agree how to send/receive NRPNs, they usually do).

In case of motorized faders, LEDs and in most cases encoders (CME VX-5+ has motorized faders and encoders), there is no "generic" definition how that should work. MIDI by itself was oriented toward finite knobs/sliders without any feedback. So the solution has to be "complicated". That doesn't mean it should be difficult to use, you normally can switch the device into Mackie emulation mode and use corresponding plug-in. 

But when you switch to "Custom solutions", in case you don't like what Mackie emulation does, the setup is more complicated. Still can be done in 1-2 days. Only when you want DIY everything yourself (write own controlling logic in supported by the DAW language, in case of Cakewalk that is C++), it can take a while... But as you probably know, I have proved even that is possible in less then 15 years 

[Astraios]

35 minutes ago, azslow3 said:

"Remote control" was superseded by other approach long time ago. In Cakewalk it is called "ACT".

 

Hi and thanks for your comment – I've been experimenting with ACT for a few years, but I haven't been able to achieve satisfactory results. The graphical limitation to 8 buttons and 8 controls really got on my nerves... In principle, it seems to be heading in the right direction, but it hasn't been successfully developed further. And what's great, of course, is that you can save presets and thus transfer the settings to another project. Users don't seem to have particularly taken to it either. Unfortunately,I couldn't express my ideas in this system.

However, I was able to make a huge leap forward with Blue Cat's virtual MIDI controller, "Remote CTRL."

Edited yesterday at 08:43 PM by Astraios

[azslow3]

1 hour ago, Astraios said:

Hi and thanks for your comment – I've been experimenting with ACT for a few years, but I haven't been able to achieve satisfactory results. The graphical limitation to 8 buttons and 8 controls really got on my nerves... In principle, it seems to be heading in the right direction, but it hasn't been successfully developed further. And what's great, of course, is that you can save presets and thus transfer the settings to another project. Users don't seem to have particularly taken to it either. Unfortunately,I couldn't express my ideas in this system.

However, I was able to make a huge leap forward with Blue Cat's virtual MIDI controller, "Remote CTRL."

By ACT I mean the approach, not "ACT MIDI Controller" plug-in. That plug-in is in fact limiting and its limitation has triggered me to write my own ACT plug-in.  I mean AZ Controller (https://www.azslow.com/). Standard Mackie (and all other) is also ACT plug-in.

Creating own virtual surface to make a project one single "instrument" under its control, so "Remote control" the same way as "MIDI Learn" in soft-synths, is a valid approach.  But that is different from generic DAW control, I mean using one device with arbitrary projects. At the beginning I was creating project specific presets, major problem was remembering what controls do in  particular project... With one preset which always works the same way there is no such problem (I guess that is the reason for MCU and alike popularity).  What also helps are actual labels for controls (another MCU/C4 and alike advantage). MIDI does not allow the last, you need OSC (f.e. https://www.azslow.com/index.php/topic,295.0.html) or at least a window with such labels (what "ACT MIDI" GUI does... well, not perfectly...).

[Astraios]

Hi azslow3,

I have great respect for your programming skills and your great software. It shows that you're an expert.
I spent hours and days with your software and was stumped by the somewhat sparse, technical GUI.

MIDI Learn is a special feature and, in my opinion, was developed for rudimentary basic control. The big disadvantage is that it only works on one channel and therefore only allows about 120 control commands. Furthermore, you can usually only activate certain VST parameters with it (this varies from plugin to plugin).

I'd also like to point out that the Sonar "Remote Control" also supports the "last selected parameter" function (and isn't that what ACT is all about?). It's unfortunate that you can't access the Sonar remote window with one click...

As long as MIDI controllers aren't able to conveniently label control units, there will probably never be a breakthrough in the remote control world. But that has already changed with the virtual MIDI controller "Touch Portal" and its fully editable interface.

Edited 7 hours ago by Astraios

[Astraios]

Two virtual MIDI controllers. One, Sonar "ACT," is impractical because of its four banks system (4x8 =32  x2 = 64 Controls). It's also difficult to understand. The concept dates back to the days when  Mackie hardware was the ultimate. But in the age of EDM, that's no longer the case.

The other, Blue Cat "Remote CTRL," offers 64 buttons, knobs, and sliders and additional so much more. Also multiple windows with different layouts. It's relativly easy to understand and also easy to use.

 

 

 

Edited 7 hours ago by Astraios

[azslow3]

If you have such real device:

And see that on display (mix mode):

and then switch to (ACT mode)...

and may be to (PC mode)...

For me that looks more usable then "Remote control". I will never remember which knob controls what there, also the position is initially not in sync.

I guess you have no problem to find which knob you should turn on BCR to change CA-2A gain, even so you have never worked with it, right? 

And the value is always "in sync". 

 

I mean for long session with  Z3TA, "Remote control" (when connected to real device) has advantages - finite knobs are more "playable" then encoders (at least for me). But for controlling DAW in general, including mix/effects - no way...

 

Edited 2 hours ago by azslow3

[Astraios]

... what do you think this stuff? 

I'm still experimenting, but the results are getting better and better. The Touch Portal as a MIDI controller has almost unlimited possibilities. Everything happens completely synchronously on the synth.

 

[Astraios]

These are the four Z3TA+2 controller matrix built in Touch Portal. I think it's so cool. 

 

 

 

Edited 31 minutes ago by Astraios