Beginner Here - can instrument/audio be added to uploaded MIDI file...?

[Kris Krieger]

Hello!  I've been looking and trying and I can't find the answer on my own, very possibly because I lack the terminology.
- Anyway, I downloaded and installed Sonar just a couple of weeks ago.  I have some MIDI files I had made some years back using "MusicTime" (that was way back in 1997, Yikes!); I can load them into "Crescendo" (a free notation program) and get them to play, but they sound *horrible*.  
- Well, I can also load them into Sonar Free; and I did find out via the Forum that "MIDI tracks don't play any sounds" because they're only instructions.  OK, I can understand that, and that there's some sub-program in Crescendo (and similar) which "translate" the Midi Channel/bank/patch/description/whatever into sounds (even though the sounds are awful).  
- Oh, in case it matters, my MIDI input is set to "Virtual Controller" because I don't have a USB keyboard/"input device"...I looked at a few "budget" ones but don't want to spend my fixed-income dollars on something that might not even work with the software and so on...
- ANYhoooo.... so, what I can't seem to find is, How can I link/connect/match/insert/whatever those MIDI in Sonar?  I have to assume that whatever the other programs are doing automatically, has to be done "manually" in Sonar because there are so many additional "sounds", and ESPECIALLY, better *quality* "sounds", available.  But I can't for the life of me find out how to use the MIDI track to "talk to" an instrument/"sound"/"audio" track to "tell it what to do".
-
- As I mentioned, I'm a total beginner with the whole "DAW" thing, but I'd really like to get my older compositions to where they sound at least *passably* decent, and even work on some new ones....
- I took a screen shot of what I've got going with the MIDI file but it's pretty huge, so I'll only try to post it if it will clarify anything...
-
- Thank you all for your collective patience!
ADDENDUM:
I did find this https://legacy.cakewalk.com/Support/Knowledge-Base/2007013179/I-cannot-hear-MIDI-playback
so now I can at least hear the MIDI playback, but I still hate the "tinny" sound and would love to have something like the "BBC Full ORchestra" sounds instead, so still trying to figure out how to get the MIDI *instructions* to play through a VST3 Instrument.....
- Thanks again!

Edited Monday at 09:04 PM by Kris Krieger

[Promidi]

Yes, you can.

Open (do not import) your MIDI file in Sonar.
From the synth rack, insert a synth for each required sound in your MIDI track. (these synths don't need their own MIDI track, respectively)
Using each MIDI track’s in/outs,  route the MIDI tracks to the required synth.

[Kris Krieger]

28 minutes ago, Promidi said:

Yes, you can.

Open (do not import) your MIDI file in Sonar.
From the synth rack, insert a synth for each required sound in your MIDI track. (these synths don't need their own MIDI track, respectively)
Using each MIDI track’s in/outs,  route the MIDI tracks to the required synth.

Ah-HA!!  Thank you, Promidi!  I found that under "Insert"/"Soft Synth".
I still have to "fiddle" (no pun intended, especially such an awful one, but what the heck.... ) with the things I've downloaded, but this is definitely a First Step in the right direction!  Especially since it helps me to know what's being inserted, Heh!

Old dogs can learn new tricks - it just takes us a little longer to get past all the other accumulated clutter, LOL!
 

[Bass Guitar]

This problem is due to the fact that Sonar had to discontinue the TTS-1 General Midi synth back in the Fall of 2023 at the request of Roland who owns the software rights to the synth. 
 

They never replaced it so as a result opening a midi file results in there being nothing to play the sounds. 
 

Oddly enough Cakewalk Next paid version does include GM midi instruments. 
 

Sonar now only includes I think 4 instruments with the SI instrument collection. But that is very limited to just Drums, Bass, Strings and Electric Piano. 
For more sounds you require further 3rd party instruments. 
 

SynthFont 64 is an inexpensive GM midi synth that will play any GM midi files. It has a stand alone version and the VST version which will work with any Daw. 

 

[msmcleod]

10 hours ago, Bass Guitar said:

Oddly enough Cakewalk Next paid version does include GM midi instruments. 

Actually, Next simply maps the GM instruments to BandLab instruments when in imports the MIDI file. 

Not all GM instruments have an equivalent BandLab instrument mapping - some may use a similar sounding instrument or use a piano as default, and program changes within a track are not supported.
 

[Promidi]

I have to admit, this whole TT-S situation has made me glad I still have a working Yamaha SW1000XG card (in another PC connected via a Roland USB to MIDI adapter)

[Bass Guitar]

I think very few Cakewalk/ Sonar users  are aware that the TTS-1 was removed because until you do a clean install or new build you will still have it. 
And even then the trick is simply to have kept an old CbB full installer from before November 2023. You can’t activate it anymore anyway. That would still include the TTS-1. 
 

of course you would want to install that version first and then install Sonar. 
 

I have lots of options for GM . 
Synthfont64,  Coyote , Korg o5/rw, Roland SD55, GR50 and a Keyboard,, 2 Yamaha keyboards, Windows Media Player, Studio 1, Mixcraft and Band in a Box.

If I open a project that is using the TTS-1 I freeze the tracks. 

[Kris Krieger]

15 hours ago, Bass Guitar said:

This problem is due to the fact that Sonar had to discontinue the TTS-1 General Midi synth back in the Fall of 2023 at the request of Roland who owns the software rights to the synth. 
[ ...] Oddly enough Cakewalk Next paid version does include GM midi instruments. [...]
SynthFont 64 is an inexpensive GM midi synth that will play any GM midi files. It has a stand alone version and the VST version which will work with any Daw. 

 

Oh!  That strikes me as odd - I'd think they'd come to an agreement of some sort, since it would benefit both to make them *both* more accessible to both beginners and more knowledgeable people.  The current disjunct is IMO completely opaque.

Meanwhile, THANK YOU also for the info about "Next."   I apparently have it downloaded and installed <!>, but I thought it was only for use on smart phones.   The website touts Sonar as "good for beginners" but I'm now thinking I need to look at "Next", and see whether it doesn't shed some light on Sonar, which to me is utterly opaque.

I'll also take a look at the SynthFont VST, thank you for the suggestion!   especially the "inexpensive" part   -- I'm also looking at a few "bottom tier" keyboards.  Obviously I'm so far from being a "Pro" that I'm not even in the same galaxy, Heh!   but music was always a part of my life and I've been missing it recently. 

So onwards and, I hope , upwards!

[Conteloto]

Or just open the midi, create the instrument and drag the midi track content to the instrument track, them delete the midi track

[msmcleod]

If you need a free one, I've used this from time to time - I've got several XG hardware modules, so I only normally use this if I'm out & about with my laptop.

It's 32 bit and essentially abandonware though:

https://veg.by/en/projects/syxg50/

I've always used it through jBridge, and it works perfectly for me - I'm not sure how well it plays with Sonar's BitBridge.

[Bass Guitar]

Be aware that if you don’t have the Membership then Next will not have the instruments. They are only available in the full version. 
 

You can demo SynthFont for free to see if it’s something you’d want. 
 

First go to preferences/ midi/ devices and uncheck all the output boxes. 

open the midi file which will create a new project with all the correct midi tracks and info. But it will be silent because there is no instrument to play it. 
Then simply insert SynthFont as an instrument track. 
The midi tracks will be automatically assigned to the instrument. 
If you’re midi files used GM patch and banks it should play correctly. 

Edited 5 hours ago by Bass Guitar

[AB99]

I do not know if this is helpful, but here is a link regarding free instrument VSTS:
https://blog.landr.com/free-vst-plugins/#bestfreeinstrumentplugins

[Kris Krieger]

4 hours ago, msmcleod said:

If you need a free one, I've used this from time to time - I've got several XG hardware modules, so I only normally use this if I'm out & about with my laptop.
It's 32 bit and essentially abandonware though:
https://veg.by/en/projects/syxg50/

I've always used it through jBridge, and it works perfectly for me - I'm not sure how well it plays with Sonar's BitBridge.

Thanks!  Abandonware isn't a problem, given the primitive level I'm currently working  - most of my software probably qualifies
For the price, it's definitely worth a try!

[Promidi]

14 minutes ago, Kris Krieger said:

I've got several XG hardware modules

@msmcleodDo you have an MU100?  I had a chance to grab a MU100R in 2002.  Opted for the SW1K (with some trade ins of other equipment)