Spitfire BBCSO Template for CbB

[Matthew Sorrels]

3 hours ago, Starise said:

Shouldn't this be easier using the new articulations manager?

When I built these templates Cakewalk didn't have an articulation manager.  So the short answer is, yes, adding that to these templates would be awesome.  The problem is it's 56 instruments with a lot of articulations each.  Even if you use someone else's articulation maps (So you don't have to do all that work) you still will have to load and assign them to each track.  It's a fair bit of work, even taking every short cut you can manage.

[Starise]

20 hours ago, Matthew Sorrels said:

When I built these templates Cakewalk didn't have an articulation manager.  So the short answer is, yes, adding that to these templates would be awesome.  The problem is it's 56 instruments with a lot of articulations each.  Even if you use someone else's articulation maps (So you don't have to do all that work) you still will have to load and assign them to each track.  It's a fair bit of work, even taking every short cut you can manage.

True. 

I sat down last evening to write the maps myself and about and hour and a half into it Cakewalk locked up on me. I lost all of it. I might attempt it again today later.

Just so you know, the articulations are the same for all the strings, so you can simply reuse that template over all of them. Similar thing with the brass. All but I think the last few are the exact same map. The lower brass omits a few of the articulations. 

That's as far I as I got before the crash. It was past midnight by then and I gave up.

I have a question though. I was only writing the key assignment to the map. Should anything else be changed? I think the default is CC.

Edited December 29, 2020 by Starise

[MisterGreen]

Thanks for the template, Matthew! I just finished tweaking it for Core.

[Starise]

I made  an articulation Map for BBCSO CORE  HERE. This would go into your Cakewalk CORE articulation maps folder or you might be able to import it by finding your download location.

All key positions are mapped and designated.  Some of the instruments carry common keys witches. Others do not.

If it needs tweaks let me know. Switching designations in Cakewalk articulations should control these instruments.  The articulations were the same across all strings so I made just one map for those.  Same with some of the brass. In any case where maps were the same , I made maps that should cover all those instruments.

 

[Matthew Sorrels]

3 hours ago, Starise said:

I have a question though. I was only writing the key assignment to the map. Should anything else be changed? I think the default is CC.

When I load BBCSO Pro in as an instrument it appears to have a default key mapping for every instrument.  I'd think it would be best to just target that.  I don't think the Spitfire Audio plugin supports the CC on a single key UACC KS mode that the Babylonwaves uses for the Kontakt instruments.  Keyswitching is about the only real choice, using whatever the defaults are (I think it's everything starts at C-1).

I thought Cakewalk's articulation maps are just JSON/XML text files.  It might be possible to edit them using text editors rather than having to create them inside Cakewalk.   That way you can't lose any work and can easilly duplicate setups for multiple instruments/etc.

[Starise]

6 minutes ago, Matthew Sorrels said:

When I load BBCSO Pro in as an instrument it appears to have a default key mapping for every instrument.  I'd think it would be best to just target that.  I don't think the Spitfire Audio plugin supports the CC on a single key UACC KS mode that the Babylonwaves uses for the Kontakt instruments.  Keyswitching is about the only real choice, using whatever the defaults are (I think it's everything starts at C-1).

I thought Cakewalk's articulation maps are just JSON/XML text files.  It might be possible to edit them using text editors rather than having to create them inside Cakewalk.   That way you can't lose any work and can easilly duplicate setups for multiple instruments/etc.

Thanks Matthew. Yeah the defaults are pretty consistent across the range of instruments with a few exceptions. I haven't run these mappings through the paces to any detail yet. I know the key switches are all correct. Might need to look at the switching methods used. BBCSO Professional might have a few more compared to CORE but I thought it was mostly mic positions you gained.

Edited December 29, 2020 by Starise

[Matthew Sorrels]

7 minutes ago, Starise said:

Thanks Matthew. Yeah the defaults are pretty consistent across the range of instruments with a few exceptions. I haven't run these mappings through the paces to any detail yet. I know the key switches are all correct. Might need to look at the switching methods used. BBCSO Professional might have a few more compared to CORE but I thought it was mostly mic positions you gained.

I gave your articulations a try but all the keyswitches seem to line up differently than what I'm seeing assigned when I load virgin Violins 1.  For example your map has Tremelo Sul Pont as E -2 [4] but my BBCSO loads that in as E0 (inside BCCSO) but on my -2 based Piano Roll that's an E-1.  Maybe your keyswitches are off an octave?  Is that perhaps something to do with the instrument (keyswitches move based on the range of instrument?) or being Pro?

[Starise]

Matthew,

I  I'll look into it some more. See my attached pic. I set it as EO . EO is the designation in BBCSO CORE so possibly the mappings are different.

[Starise]

Spitfire GUI. Looks as if we can change the key switch if wanted.

[Matthew Sorrels]

 

16 minutes ago, Starise said:

Spitfire GUI. Looks as if we can change the key switch if wanted.

I have Cakewalk set so MIDI is mapped -2, so your key shows up as E - 2.  Which means none of the keys match the keys in BBCSO, at least not by name.  For the articulation maps I believe what really counts is the number [4] which is the MIDI note that is being sent.  BBCSO says E0 but the MIDI note value it seems to want for that (by default) is 16.  Spiccato is MIDI note 4, which is what I get when I use your articulation map.  While the note names can be adjusted with the preferences (and the switches adjusted in BBCSO), the actual keyswitch values they are showing in the BBCSO interface don't match.  To match the BBCSO interface you have to set Cakewalk to Base Octave for Pitches -1:

I suspect you have your set to 0.  And mine is at -2.

When you have Cakewalk set to -1 your Tremelo Sul Pont looks like this:

It always sends MIDI note 4, but that's not the right note for BBCSO.

 

 

[Starise]

Matthew,

I did as you suggested and I come up with the same inputs . So far as key switch designations it shifts everything and maybe that helps to get the right midi numbers.

edit- Well the Articulation manager is making changes but they are still way off compared to the actual settings. At least I have something happening now.

Edited December 29, 2020 by Starise

[Starise]

Hopefully this is a success. Sure seems to be on my system. I accounted for the mismatch between the plugin and the Articulation Manager.

Should be no need to make any adjustments to your system. Can keep midi setup as is with this template. Template is linked below.

BBCSO CORE Updated Template.

[Matthew Sorrels]

3 hours ago, Starise said:

Hopefully this is a success. Sure seems to be on my system. I accounted for the mismatch between the plugin and the Articulation Manager.

Looks good for me, all the strings I tested worked right with BBCSO Pro (which I think has the same articulations as Core).  Still need to test the others though and assign this to every track in the template.  But this is most of the (painful) work.  Thanks!

[Starise]

9 hours ago, Matthew Sorrels said:

Looks good for me, all the strings I tested worked right with BBCSO Pro (which I think has the same articulations as Core).  Still need to test the others though and assign this to every track in the template.  But this is most of the (painful) work.  Thanks!

Sure! and thanks for making those templates.

[XBaker]

I realize I'm quite late to this thread. Hopefully, the OP is still around and can assist.

I only own BBCSO Discover. Seems the template is built for Core. I'm able to load the template and Connect synths in the Rack, but I don't get any sound. I made sure all MIDI, Instrument, and Busses are routed properly for my system, but still no audio.

From watching the Spitfire video on Mode Switching, it would seem that it's merely a simple matter of selecting "Discover" as the Mode in the VST plugin. Unfortunately, I don't see the Mode dropdown in the Discover edition. Am I out of luck in using the template?

Thanks!

Tom

[Promidi]

3 hours ago, XBaker said:

I only own BBCSO Discover. Seems the template is built for Core. I'm able to load the template and Connect synths in the Rack, but I don't get any sound. I made sure all MIDI, Instrument, and Busses are routed properly for my system, but still no audio.

From watching the Spitfire video on Mode Switching, it would seem that it's merely a simple matter of selecting "Discover" as the Mode in the VST plugin. Unfortunately, I don't see the Mode dropdown in the Discover edition. Am I out of luck in using the template?

You might want to start a new thread with a title that is related to your issue. 

That way, people will be able to find it......

[XBaker]

33 minutes ago, Promidi said:

You might want to start a new thread with a title that is related to your issue. 

That way, people will be able to find it......

Thanks. I'll do that if no one replies here after a day or two.

[swijaya]

5 hours ago, XBaker said:

Thanks. I'll do that if no one replies here after a day or two.

It's been a while since I owned only the Discover.

So you don't have this dropdown in Discover?

 

[XBaker]

Nope, it's not present.

[XBaker]

I resolved the issue by using the Replace Synth feature for each instrument that's in Discover and deleting the instruments that aren't. End result works perfectly!