Cakewalk by Bandlab forwarding volume level adjustments in the console

[Herbert Chong]

i'm not sure if i am just missing something, a bug somewhere, or a misunderstanding on my part but when i mix tracks using the Cakewalk console where the instruments are all virtual instruments, moving the level sliders in the Cakewalk console sometimes moves the levels internal to the virtual instruments and sometimes not. this seems to depend on the Cakewalk project and not the instruments. i have at least two scenarios:

1. moving the Cakewalk level slider does not move the level setting inside the instrument. some instruments never do and seem to be intentionally designed this way and i end up using the internal level control of the instrument. this is less annoying than the situation where depending on the specific Cakewalk project the instrument sometimes responds and sometimes doesn't. for the same instrument across projects there are some projects where the level gets passed through and some where it is not. i mostly find this inconsistent problem in Kontakt full version. whatever happens for a specific project never changes by closing the project/Cakewalk and opening the project again.
2. beginning play resets the internal level setting of the virtual instrument.  this seems to happen only when the console level control isn't affecting the virtual instrument but in other projects it does. i have noticed this happen for Aria and Kontakt full version virtual instruments but i don't think it is limited to them. most of the time this is where i set a level in the Cakewalk console and nothing happens in the virtual instrument so i change the virtual instrument's level control. starting play in Cakewalk and then the virtual instrument's volume changes, usually dropping a lot and not at all matching the console level setting. virtual instruments that never respond to Cakewalk console level setting are unaffected.

i'm hoping that there's some Cakewalk setting/option that i have overlooked that makes it so that if the instrument is capable of responding that it always responds and that Cakewalk stops resetting the level.

Herb...

[Herbert Chong]

i forgot to mention that i have carefully checked all CC in the MIDI data for every track.

Herb...

[Amberwolf]

If a synth (VST, etc) responds to CC7, then moving the volume slider in the MIDI track feeding that synth will tell the synth to change volume.

If a synth does not respond to CC7, moving the volume slider in the MIDI track will not do anything.  

 

If the synth has an onscreen volume control, and that control responds to CC7, then it should move along with the MIDI track's volume control. 

Some don't, because of the way the plugin is designed, where you can use the control to change volume but it doesn't update the onscreen control from external changes even though the synth itself does actually change volume.  (other controls may also work the same way...or not).   

that's all up to the synth designer (though for a correctly designed UI it should always update the onscreen controls to match actual internal states, regardless of data source).  Actual implementations vary a lot; only thing you can do about it is request a change from the synth maker. 

 

If you have the option "zero controllers...." turned on, in your CW midi settings, then it will send out a controller reset on every channel / port whenever you do something that triggers that function.  

 

 

If you are using hte volume controls on an audio track, even the one the synth is hosted in, then it doesn't send any data to the synth (it just modifies the ouptut of that audio track to whatever bus it feeds) so there's nothing for the synth to respond to. 

[Herbert Chong]

13 hours ago, Amberwolf said:

If a synth (VST, etc) responds to CC7, then moving the volume slider in the MIDI track feeding that synth will tell the synth to change volume.

If a synth does not respond to CC7, moving the volume slider in the MIDI track will not do anything.  

if it were as consistent as that i would be happy. it's not. the identical instrument and preset across Cakewalk projects can do different things. that's why i asked here.

Herb...

[msmcleod]

As a rule, it's normally best to automate the audio track volume of a VSTi rather than the MIDI track volume.

Apart from the fact a lot of VSTi's don't respond to CC7, when they do, what you're actually doing by automating MIDI volume is changing the volume pre-fx which isn't usually what you want.

The audio volume fader is always post fx.

If you do need pre-fx, consider automating the audio track gain.

[Starship Krupa]

On 5/30/2025 at 10:31 AM, Herbert Chong said:

the identical instrument and preset across Cakewalk projects can do different things

From your post it looks like it's confined to Kontakt and the Aria Player. You mention no other virtual instruments.

My first question is whether you're using your synths as "Simple Instrument Tracks" or as split Synth and MIDI tracks.

On 5/29/2025 at 3:58 PM, Herbert Chong said:

1. moving the Cakewalk level slider does not move the level setting inside the instrument.

By "the Cakewalk level slider," do you mean the audio level slider on the channel strip in Console View? That should never have any effect on a virtual instrument's own master volume control (or any other control internal to the synth).

I have had it happen that Kontakt's internal volume control resets itself upon rewind and start. The solution to that was a setting within Kontakt itself.