Slip Edit, Audio Transients or Slip Stretch , Time Stretch?

[sadicus]

Goal: Quantize the Guitar Audio Transient to the Beat.
Since there are several ways to line up the audio,  was curious what is the most appropriate?
Are "Slip Stretch" and "Time Stretch" distinctly different functions?
example:
SLIP EDIT
If the Audio time was recorded on the beat correct but latency make the visual waveform look out of sync, so Slip edit would fix this.
 

Edited March 17 by sadicus

[Max Arwood]

A screen capture that showed peaks and the timing grid would be helpful. Also, is it 1) just loose timing - some  ahead some behind? 2) or all timing out the same amount?

[Amberwolf]

As I understand the term, slip edit refers to moving either start or end edge of a clip to expose more or less of the clip contents, and does not move the contents or change them.  By itself, this isn't directly useful to line up multiple transients in a clip to other things in the project.  But you can use it along with Split Clip (or scissors tool) by cutting a clip up into the sections you want, then slip editing them down to just the bits you want to hear, then dragging them along the timeline utnil they line up where you want them to. 

I use this to line up percussive or vocalization / etc sounds that are in clips when I don't want to change the length of any parts of the sound itself, just line up specific parts of it with other things.

 

What you refer to as slip edit in the example:

6 hours ago, sadicus said:

If the Audio time was recorded on the beat correct but latency make the visual waveform look out of sync, so Slip edit would fix this.

would just be a drag move of the clip (or you could use nudge), you wouldn't be editing the clip contents or length, just moving it to line it up.

 

 

Slip stretch isn't a term I recall but it sounds like it refers to the function that in my ancient version is done by holding the CTRL key and then click-dragging either start or end edge of a clip, which then stretches or contracts the clip contents timewise without changing the pitch of the sound.   This can be used to directly line up multiple (but not all) transients in a clip with other things in the project.  So if you have something with say, two large transients that need to line up with two beats, and you don't care about the rest of the transients lining up, then you can just stretch it until they're the right distance, then drag the clip until they both line up where you want them to.     Or for single transients, and then simply making the sound longer or shorter to fit a specific time amount.

I use this for some vocalizations or other sounds that may have been recorded for different tempo, but I don't want to sit there and figure out what that was vs what I have now and some ratio math, I just move the clip till the start  (or end) edge of the clip is where I want it, then ctrl-click-drag the other edge until it fills the space I want, shortening or lengthening it as needed till it sounds the way I want. 

Then after saving a version of the project I'll bounce that to a clip, since the realtime math it does doesn't sound as good as the offline bounce math  and I need to hear things in the way they'll sound for the final result in order to compose.   If I change my mind later I can just go back to the saved version and copy/paste the original clip over to the current one. (or reimport the audio, etc). 

 

You can also just go into the clip properties dialog and directly change the clip time, pitch, length, etc., numerically in one or another of the fields.  I think that most of them are exclusive; if you're using one method you can't simultaneously use another, though it would be nice if it was possible for experimenting before bouncing--instead you have to change one then bounce the clip, then another if you need to do two or more  of them to alter a clip to your liking. 

 

 

If there are multiple transients you need to line up, and you want the clip to remain intact in length, etc., then Audiosnap is the "easiest" way to do this.  You can use the AS quantize, or you can manually line them up, or first the one then the other; whatever fits your workflow better or makes the sound / effect you are after.     

I use this for almost anything I have to record in as audio, as I don't have physical control good enough to get the timing I want.  So I slice it up into the clips I'm keeping vs the ones too crappy to be worth fixing, then enable AS on the clip, turn on the transients markers I want to move around and the ones I want to remain exactly where they are, and disable the others.  Then move the transients I want till it sounds right (which is usually not exactly on any beat, depending on the rhythm I'm after), and save the project as a new version, then bounce the clip (for the reasons previously noted). 

 

 

There are also ways to combine each of these things in various orders to achieve other results, including deliberate distortions of sound or timing, so which one you use depends on how you want the final result to sound, and the specific work you're trying to do. 

 

Depending on your source material, result desired, and how far you have to push timing, you may need to use one technique on some parts, and another technique on others.  

 

Edited March 17 by Amberwolf

[Max Arwood]

I always make a copy of the clip before I start editing and edit on the copy only. 
I also make a full copy by save as song01, song02 etc

Edited March 17 by Max Arwood

[Amberwolf]

As a few examples, I used all of the techniques to line up , stretch, and fit all the hundreds of wolf amd environmental sounds in Ookami no Kari no Yume (Wolf's Dream of the Hunt)

https://amberwolf.bandcamp.com/track/ookami-no-kari-no-yume-wolfs-dream-of-the-hunt

starting mostly with longer clips of group wolf howls and such, panting and other sounds from my own St Bernard, birds, forest sound, etc., using split and slip edits to break many of these up into other clips. 

Some of the individual wolf howls were long series of howls with time between them that were then split and broken up into clips of single howls, and then those were moved to line up their start or end with some event in another track, then "slip stretch' was used to lengthen or shorten the clip so the other end of it would line up with a different event. 

Some of those were split into multiple clips themselves, so that the split ends stayed where they were, but I could now stretch or squish *both* ends without moving that split spot so I could line it up wiht three events, or preserve some other characteristic.

Some clips were rretimed using AudioSnap by adding markers where desired and draging those around, not always to put them on a beat but sometimes to move them off on purpose to draw attention to them to refocus the audience.   

Many things were pitch corrected in certain spots to either match or contrast with other events. 

The flute-like main high synth was rendered to audio and many of the clips chopped up to pitch shift pieces of them, or to slip stretch or squish them in time to fit on or between other events. 

Most of the taiko percussion was clips slip edited down to just enough to accent something else, clip-faded where necessary.  Some were slip stretched for time fit instead of slip edting if they were more "in the open" so they were more natural sounding. 

 

 

Intron 159

https://amberwolf.bandcamp.com/track/intron-159

used split and slip editing to break up a pair of single percussive clips I had that i started the project with as overlapping loops for the whole project lenght.  That broke them up into bits for just the areas tehyw ere needed in, and then some of the specific hits were clipped out and placed elsewhere , often time stretched or squished, soem pitch shifted, to accent or interrupt.  

Similarly many of the main synth lines were done the same way, once the Z3TA2 synth line was rendered out as audio.   

The backing ambience sounds were also split, stretched, etc., to fit as needed.   

 

 

I'm Sure It's Nothing, But...

https://amberwolf.bandcamp.com/track/im-sure-its-nothing-but

virtually every vocalization was time stretched or squished to fit or line up with something.  Some of hte percussion was as well.   

 

Gareki and Gareki II 

https://amberwolf.bandcamp.com/track/gareki

https://amberwolf.bandcamp.com/track/gareki-ii-alternate-version-cinematic-feel

Vocalizations, percussion, synth clips, ambience, etc.,  all had some pieces manipulated with one or another of these tools.  

 

So did Less Like A Whisper

https://amberwolf.bandcamp.com/track/less-like-a-whisper

but to a much greater extent.  The percussion tracks were the most heavily modified, but the many vocal pieces were quite a lot of work.  

It's still not really done; I just ran out of ability to figure out how to fix some of the issues without causing others, but I have learned a lot in the several pieces created since then that will help me when I go back to LLAW. 

 

 

A Peek Over The Wall

https://amberwolf.bandcamp.com/track/a-peek-over-the-wall

was a second experiment in putting together things that were not made to go together (LLAW was more or less the first), but were instead pieces of "song kits" (which I don't really have a use for except for the pieces I can build something totally different with, like this), to make something with a feel of it's own, and all of the pieces were extensively altered with all the tools discussed above. 

 

 

If I Should Wake

https://amberwolf.bandcamp.com/track/if-i-should-wake

was a third even deeper experiment in literally throwing something together from assorted whatever, then forcing things to fit with all of the tools discussed here.  

 

 

 

Just Give Me A Voice

https://amberwolf.bandcamp.com/track/just-give-me-a-voice

The entire lead guitar part was chopped up and rebuilt completely form what I'd played in in a scratch garbage session, using all the tools to completely redo and modify the recorded clean guitar (a 6 string bass, used as a guitar instead because the spacing lets me finger the strings with it flat on my lap without totally mangling everything since I can't actually play).

Some parts of the synth/perc/etc tracks were also rebuilt with the tools after I'd rendered them out as audio, some for effect and some because it was eaiser than redoing them as midi and rerendering. 

 

Edited March 18 by Amberwolf