Astraios Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 (edited) Hello - I could use some help... it's about a VST3 plugin, more specifically my favorite softsynth Spire from Reveal. For a few days now I can no longer load this plugin as VST3 without a crash. The VST2 version is okay. I've been racking my brain as to why it doesn't work and trying all sorts of things. I've been working with Sonar/Cakewalk for about 15 years and am pretty well versed when it comes to DAWs. I don't remember changing anything majorly recently. The other 230 VSTs don't cause any problems. Maybe someone has an idea? I would be happy... I'm very surprised because I haven't had any problems with Spire or my setup in the last few months Edited February 10 by Astraios Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amberwolf Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 (edited) Does the crash dump point to any specific file, etc? BTW, most of the time on systems that autoupdate stuff, the problems start right after some update happened (that the user doesn't even usually know occurred), often to a driver, etc. (this is why all updating on all systems and devices I have is disabled, because if it's already working, there's no reason to change anything). Edited February 10 by Amberwolf 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgoRr Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 2 hours ago, Amberwolf said: this is why all updating on all systems and devices I have is disabled, because if it's already working, there's no reason to change anything I completely agree with your opinion, this has happened to me several times, and therefore, I also disable system updates after a clean installation and the first update. 3 hours ago, Astraios said: I can no longer load this plugin as VST3 without a crash. The VST2 version is okay. If you have Spire running on VST2, work in this format, it is in no way inferior to the VST3 format in practice. I understand that it is unpleasant and interesting for you to find out the cause of failures, but it would be rational if Spire did not work at all, but in this case you may spend more time and effort to find out the cause, and it is not a fact that you will be able to find this cause and fix the problem. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astraios Posted February 11 Author Share Posted February 11 Hm, yes, thanks for the recommendation, but I have already saved some projects in VST3 mode and that is a problem. It's now 2025 and I can remember such nonsense in 2008... I'll ask the Spire people if they have an answer. I've already checked most of the things: Plugin Manager (*pgl file), VST scan, reinstallation of the plugin, VST3 folder checked - 16 per month - Spire Synth is a common, very popular plugin... Also, no prob in FL Studio (which is my second DAW) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astraios Posted February 11 Author Share Posted February 11 21 hours ago, Amberwolf said: Does the crash dump point to any specific file, etc? No, as far as I can tell - I'm glad that an error message is displayed at all. It's not uncommon for me that sonar goes away without any notification. The really frustrating thing is that practically no one really cares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Baay Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 Not seeing a problem with the demo VST3 I installed relatively recently - v 1.5.17 build 5324. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astraios Posted February 11 Author Share Posted February 11 21 minutes ago, David Baay said: Not seeing a problem with the demo VST3 I installed relatively recently - v 1.5.17 build 5324. Thank you for your support and help - hmm, I thought so, because the problem suddenly appeared out of the blue... I have absolutely no idea what I messed up again. I initially suspected the versions of VST2 and VST3 would be different, but that is not the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIDInco Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 On 2/11/2025 at 7:11 AM, Astraios said: Hello - I could use some help... it's about a VST3 plugin, more specifically my favorite softsynth Spire from Reveal. For a few days now I can no longer load this plugin as VST3 without a crash. The VST2 version is okay. I've been racking my brain as to why it doesn't work and trying all sorts of things. I've been working with Sonar/Cakewalk for about 15 years and am pretty well versed when it comes to DAWs. I don't remember changing anything majorly recently. The other 230 VSTs don't cause any problems. Maybe someone has an idea? I would be happy... I'm very surprised because I haven't had any problems with Spire or my setup in the last few months I've had a similar experience with plugins like Serum as well. I posted about the same issue on the forum, so the reproducibility of this problem is very high. https://discuss.cakewalk.com/topic/83966-sonar-crashes-when-automating-vst3-plugins/ In my case, crashes are more likely to occur when controlling parameters via automation. As for a current workaround, I think the best option is to use VST2 plugins whenever available. It's disappointing that even though VST3 has been around for over 10 years, Sonar still hasn't fully supported it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Foley Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 On 2/11/2025 at 5:11 AM, Astraios said: Hello - I could use some help... it's about a VST3 plugin, more specifically my favorite softsynth Spire from Reveal. For a few days now I can no longer load this plugin as VST3 without a crash. The VST2 version is okay. I've been racking my brain as to why it doesn't work and trying all sorts of things. I've been working with Sonar/Cakewalk for about 15 years and am pretty well versed when it comes to DAWs. I don't remember changing anything majorly recently. The other 230 VSTs don't cause any problems. Maybe someone has an idea? I would be happy... I'm very surprised because I haven't had any problems with Spire google baseball or my setup in the last few months Have you updated any software recently? This includes your DAW (Sonar/Cakewalk), the Spire plugin itself, or any other system components. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Baay Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 14 hours ago, MIDInco said: It's disappointing that even though VST3 has been around for over 10 years, Sonar still hasn't fully supported it. Not sure how you reached that conclusion. Admittedly I don't normally do a lot of synth automation but I have a number of projects that do, and they are working fine and have been for years. As a sanity check, I also just added some filter and LFO automation to the Spire VST3 test that I created for my reponse to the OP in this thread and it's working fine as well. The Serum demo only installs the VST2 so I can't test that one. I see that CW Support is looking into your issue with Serum. Somehow I doubt the reponse will be "Sorry, we haven't been fully supporting VST3 for the last 10 years but we'll get right on it." I kind of liked the results of my test so I'm attaching it for your listening pleasure. Spire VST3 Parameter Automation Demo.mp3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astraios Posted February 12 Author Share Posted February 12 Okay, I'll report the following: I open a Sonar project using the Spire Synth VST2. Then I add the Spire VST3 to the synth rack and load it not as a simple instrument track, but with MIDI source (see photo) and... tadaah!!! it works...? As an instrument track there is an immediate crash. How crazy is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astraios Posted February 12 Author Share Posted February 12 1 hour ago, David Baay said: Not sure how you reached that conclusion. Admittedly I don't normally do a lot of synth automation but I have a number of projects that do, and they are working fine and have been for years. As a sanity check, I also just added some filter and LFO automation to the Spire VST3 test that I created for my reponse to the OP in this thread and it's working fine as well. The Serum demo only installs the VST2 so I can't test that one. I see that CW Support is looking into your issue with Serum. Somehow I doubt the reponse will be "Sorry, we haven't been fully supporting VST3 for the last 10 years but we'll get right on it." I kind of liked the results of my test so I'm attaching it for your listening pleasure. Spire VST3 Parameter Automation Demo.mp3 Every DAW has its strengths and weaknesses... When I read it like that, I always get the impression that many users are simply not qualified enough to use the very professional Cakewalk. It's just not for semi-pros, it's too demanding for that. The fact that Cakewalk is in 10th or 15th place in the DAW ranking is a failure by the arrogant Cakewalk team for years and has almost driven this DAW to ruin. It's a shame actually Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astraios Posted February 12 Author Share Posted February 12 16 hours ago, MIDInco said: I've had a similar experience with plugins like Serum as well. I posted about the same issue on the forum, so the reproducibility of this problem is very high. https://discuss.cakewalk.com/topic/83966-sonar-crashes-when-automating-vst3-plugins/ In my case, crashes are more likely to occur when controlling parameters via automation. As for a current workaround, I think the best option is to use VST2 plugins whenever available. It's disappointing that even though VST3 has been around for over 10 years, Sonar still hasn't fully supported it. Have you tried loading the Serum not as a simple instrument track, but as a MIDI source (in the synth rack)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astraios Posted February 12 Author Share Posted February 12 On 2/10/2025 at 11:28 PM, Amberwolf said: Does the crash dump point to any specific file, etc? BTW, most of the time on systems that autoupdate stuff, the problems start right after some update happened (that the user doesn't even usually know occurred), often to a driver, etc. (this is why all updating on all systems and devices I have is disabled, because if it's already working, there's no reason to change anything). BTW, good and interesting Music on your Bandcamp site - I like it... 😁 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Baay Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 18 minutes ago, Astraios said: Then I add the Spire VST3 to the synth rack and load it not as a simple instrument track, but with MIDI source (see photo) and... tadaah!!! it works...? I can't reproduce a crash adding Spire VST3 as an Instrument track to a project that already has a Spire VST2 Instrument track. But your description of adding Spire with only the MIDI source would not create a Synth audio track to host the output of Spire VST3 in the rack. If you do that manually and then make the two tracks into an Instrument track after the fact, do you get a crash at any point? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astraios Posted February 12 Author Share Posted February 12 1 hour ago, David Baay said: I can't reproduce a crash adding Spire VST3 as an Instrument track to a project that already has a Spire VST2 Instrument track. But your description of adding Spire with only the MIDI source would not create a Synth audio track to host the output of Spire VST3 in the rack. If you do that manually and then make the two tracks into an Instrument track after the fact, do you get a crash at any point? as soon as I associate audio stuff to it --> crash... As I already mentioned, I have never had any problems with Spire VST2/VST3 in months. Well, that's just how it is - who doesn't know it and you can have this kind of fun with any DAW on the market! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astraios Posted February 12 Author Share Posted February 12 13 hours ago, Tony Foley said: Have you updated any software recently? This includes your DAW (Sonar/Cakewalk), the Spire plugin itself, or any other system components. I think the last spire update was September 2024. I've gotten tired of messing around with sonar for years. This DAW is not very suitable for EDM music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amberwolf Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 5 hours ago, Astraios said: BTW, good and interesting Music on your Bandcamp site - I like it... 😁 Thanks! Any particular pieces that stood out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astraios Posted Friday at 07:57 PM Author Share Posted Friday at 07:57 PM On 2/13/2025 at 2:58 AM, Amberwolf said: Thanks! Any particular pieces that stood out? Intron 159 You are a wolf and wolves seem dangerous at first - it is a stealth animal, a hunter and that has a certain drama. Your music requires a significant amount of attention. I like the illustrations too - do you use Sonar to create your projects? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amberwolf Posted Saturday at 04:11 AM Share Posted Saturday at 04:11 AM 7 hours ago, Astraios said: Intron 159 That one was a lot of work, building hte percussion out of rendered Dimension (or was it Rapture?) tracks that I had to cut up into tiny little clips (some of them faded in or out) to get the sound I wanted, and then finding the right synth sound to go with it (from Z3TA2 I think). It's intended to represent all the cell machinery running to "decode" DNA and implement proteins, enzymes, and all that stuff going on--if you've ever seen any of the CGI animations of that sort of thing, it looks incredibly complex and interesting.... So there's a lot going on to try to represent it. 7 hours ago, Astraios said: You are a wolf and wolves seem dangerous at first - it is a stealth animal, a hunter and that has a certain drama. I don't know if I really seem dangerous...maybe ridiculous, silly, etc. Whether I want to be or not, I'm more this kind of wolf: 7 hours ago, Astraios said: Your music requires a significant amount of attention. Yes... I have a lot of things in my head all going on at once, like a thousand train tracks all running "in the same place" that all have different trains on them with different things at different speeds, and to entertain my brain it takes a bunch of things going on, for me to keep track of, so I usually end up with songs that have a lot going on. Most people just call it "busy" and don't seem to like it; I've tried to make simpler stuff but I always want to add more...and more...and everything I hear in the song makes me hear new things, and I want to put *them* in too, and so on.... 7 hours ago, Astraios said: I like the illustrations too One of my posts somewhere here describes how I "made" them, by going thru many many iterations of prompting ImageFX to try to get the art I am after (as I just don't have enough time to create them myself in this detail anymore), but it doesn't ever really come up with the thing I ama ctually after. But eventually it gets close enough to use something...though someitmes I have to composite multiple pieces to fix things it just...wierded out on. 7 hours ago, Astraios said: do you use Sonar to create your projects? Yes, it's an ancient version from like a decade and a half ago...but it still works, even if it doesn't have all the features i want (but then again, nothing newer has most of what I want either, so I stick to what I know works for me). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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