Piano controller with a USB Midi output

[gmp]

I'm getting a Piano controller with a USB Midi output that sends midi out to CbB and CbB sends it back using the USB Midi. The controller does have a normal midi out, but not an IN. I've only used standard midi cords into a midi interface and never a USB Midi directly into the computer.

I'm wondering what's the best way to do this and I do need about 12-15 feet for the cable length to my computer. I'll try it first with a 6 foot USB 2.0 cable  into a USB extension cable to reach the computer. 

I may have to buy a 15 foot USB 2.0 cable it this doesn't work.  So I'm wondering if anyone had experience with this.

[AndyB01]

I use a 5m USB cable to connect my Roland A-88 MIDI controller to my laptop that is itself connected to a Focusrite 2i2 as audio interface. Works like a charm using an ASIO driver with as good as zero latency.

Best to try and avoid using USB extension cables if at all possible.

Andy

[gmp]

17 minutes ago, AndyB01 said:

I use a 5m USB cable to connect my Roland A-88 MIDI controller to my laptop

Does it matter if the USB cable is USB 2.0? Does it matter to plug into a USB 2.0 or 3.0 port on the computer? 

[Chaps]

26 minutes ago, gmp said:

Does it matter if the USB cable is USB 2.0? Does it matter to plug into a USB 2.0 or 3.0 port on the computer? 

Neither should make any difference. USB 3.0 is backwards compatible and so little MIDI data is transferred compared to audio that you shouldn't have any problems. As far as I know.

[Amberwolf]

The only difference that might make a difference is that a really good USB3 cable is probably better shielded than old USB...but a really cheap USB3 is probalby not as good as a good old plain USB cable.

USB3 is meant for higher bandwidth, so it's probably better shielded internally, perhaps like firewire cables which had not only twisted pair for each data set, but shielding around each pair separating all the pair and the power all from each other. 

 

 

[gmp]

I've just realized that the true standard midi out of the Controller is all I need. This is the first time I had a controller that has no internal sounds, so there's no need for a midi in. The sales guy said the USB handles midi out and midi in and I assume that's true for a controller that has only a USB like my wife's cheap keyboard. So actually i won't be using the USB anyway. But still I learned some good info about this, so thanks everyone

[Promidi]

On 2/3/2025 at 11:38 AM, gmp said:

 This is the first time I had a controller that has no internal sounds, so there's no need for a midi in.

Many MIDI controllers would use their MIDI in functions to receive slider and rotary knob assignments that have been stored as files on a PC....

I know the PCR-800 does.

[Sock Monkey]

What is changing slowly is we now have Midi 2.0. If you’re new controller has that then you would need to use USB and set up Cakewalk to use that driver instead of MME.

This new Midi protocol has much lower latency because it can send and receive the midi data stream muliplex where as the Midi 1.0 sends data serial one event at a time. 

Example is if you play a 8 finger chord and engage the mod wheel all that data used to with midi 1.0 go one event at a time. It’s like you have 100 cats and only one cat door. With midi 2.0 you have a barn door wide open. 
 

[gmp]

1 hour ago, Sock Monkey said:

What is changing slowly is we now have Midi 2.0. If you’re new controller has that then you would need to use USB and set up Cakewalk to use that driver instead of MME.

This new Midi protocol has much lower latency because it can send and receive the midi data stream muliplex where as the Midi 1.0 sends data serial one event at a time. 

Example is if you play a 8 finger chord and engage the mod wheel all that data used to with midi 1.0 go one event at a time. It’s like you have 100 cats and only one cat door. With midi 2.0 you have a barn door wide open. 
 

Man thanks for the info. So far the midi out is working fine, but I think I'll set up the USB out just in case I need the extra bandwidth. Do you know what is different about midi 2.0? Do you have to use it with a USB? I've always wondered whether we need more than 127 velocity levels.

[Amberwolf]

8 hours ago, gmp said:

It’s like you have 100 cats and only one cat door. With midi 2.0 you have a barn door wide open. 

Although you may have the same number of cat fights going thru either one...

 

/end OTness 

[azslow3]

18 hours ago, Sock Monkey said:

This new Midi protocol has much lower latency because it can send and receive the midi data stream muliplex where as the Midi 1.0 sends data serial one event at a time. 

Example is if you play a 8 finger chord and engage the mod wheel all that data used to with midi 1.0 go one event at a time. It’s like you have 100 cats and only one cat door. With midi 2.0 you have a barn door wide open. 
 

When someone has defined something which potentially can do things faster or with reduced latency, that doesn't mean everything is magically faster and has reduced latency... USB, especially USB 2+, is not limiting factor for MIDI size/speed data. Are there real tests with "USB-IF MIDI 2.0" which prove it has less latency with the same hardware?

MIDI 1.0 has hardware protocol, which is  slow. The throughput is limited to ~1 event per mSec, so 8 finger chord + wheel can take up to 10ms to transfer. MIDI 2.0 has no special hardware. So the difference is  in "USB-IF MIDI"  2.0 vs 1.0  ( proprietary "USB MIDI" drivers could and was better then generic).

All (modern) computer external communications are serial, technically all transfers are "one bit at a time". "Multiplexed MIDI stream" is defined by USB-IF for MIDI 1.0 (from 1999). Primary difference of "USB-IF MIDI 2.0" is support of "Universal MIDI packets" (UMP), which can be 4 times bigger then MIDI 1.0 packet (32bit only).  2.0 also has sections which try to address hi-speed and jitter. But as I have written at the beginning, someone has to implement all that and have a prove it "works better" in practice. Only then we can write "new MIDI has..." 

[Sock Monkey]

Yes there doesn't seem to be any real information, you would think people would be talking about it on the forums, You tube etc. I only learned about it when I was researching for my Midi latency video I made a few years ago.In theory it would seem a big improvement. But I guess  it doesn't hurt to use UMP midi mode if your device supports it.

My test pointed at using a Roland, Yamaha or Korg factory supplied driver or an Audio interface that also has a midi driver included outperformed  the few Generic driver keyboards I had on hand. Example Roland, Yamaha, Motu interface= approx 3 ms. Casio and Akia synth station 8ms.  And a ancient 1987 Roland controller was 10 ms. So it would have been cool to have had access to a UMP device too. Test involved hitting 1 note and recording the audio and midi, The audio was a SM57 1/2" from the key or drum pad. Then measure the difference.