Why Creative Sauce is Abandoning Cakewalk !

[Mark Morgon-Shaw]

 

Thoughts?..........

 

Edited November 16 by Mark Morgon-Shaw

[murat k.]

Actually, the only advantage Mac has over PC is energy efficiency. Beyond that, it lacks flexibility and confines you to its ecosystem, effectively tying you down.
He believes Cakewalk will not be used in the future, and investing time and energy into such software is not the right approach for his business. It’s sad to see a piece of software, mismanaged for many years, being abandoned one by one by its small group of supporters.
Despite all the mistakes, there is still ongoing development with some positive aspects like performance improvements.
In fact, all the issues concerning Cakewalk’s future could potentially be resolved. It just requires taking the right steps, but given the management and direction up to now, I must admit I have my doubts.

[Mr No Name]

what a wally, why doesn't he just use 2 computers.

[Mr No Name]

5 minutes ago, Mr No Name said:

what a wally, why doesn't he just use 2 computers.

edit; he's got an old windows laptop, sorry Mike for calling you a wally.

[Mark Morgon-Shaw]

13 hours ago, murat k. said:

He believes Cakewalk will not be used in the future, and investing time and energy into such software is not the right approach for his business. It’s sad to see a piece of software, mismanaged for many years, being abandoned one by one by its small group of supporters.

Yes it's sad to hear it from someone like Mike who has been one of the leading advocates for Cakewalk over recent years. Even I have learned a few things I'd overlooked from his videos and I've been using it since the mid-90s too. 

I do have to agree with him though, it seems like Bandlab built up a ton of goodwill for 5yrs with CbB and then totally bungled the release of Cakewalk Sonar. Many were left confused by the early preview that came with the Bandlab Membership which subsequently became the only way to get it much to the dismay of the loyal user base. 

I don't know who Cakewalk Sonar is aimed at anymore? It's a professional level tool but many Pro Users have little use for the slew of extras like Distribution  - Promomotional/Fan outreach stuff. Not having a way to purchase it without all that is very offputting.  Meanwhile other DAWs cater better for hobbyists by adding music creation tools to help those without tradition music skills that Cakewalk & Sonar lack.  

13 hours ago, murat k. said:

Despite all the mistakes, there is still ongoing development with some positive aspects like performance improvements.

Yeah it's not like the Dev Team haven't been hard at work so it's a shame the marketing team seem to be pulling the rug from underneath them. We don't know the numbers in the background of all this thogh - Maybe they are selling enough memberships to justify it all ?? But all I seem to see in the Fb groups and on forums is people not happy with the situation and saying they are leaving to go elsewhere, and Mike is a notable one in that category.

13 hours ago, murat k. said:

In fact, all the issues concerning Cakewalk’s future could potentially be resolved. It just requires taking the right steps, but given the management and direction up to now, I must admit I have my doubts.

My suggestion would be :

1: Sort out the licensing model, give people another option over the subscription - Pro Tools aside, every other DAW has at least some sort of non-subscription or hybrid upgrade plan where stopping the monthly fee doesn't lose your access to the version you paid for. This is what makes people mad. 

2: Take a serious look at getting a better GUI designer in - The Sonar GUI now looks a mess compared to Skylight and all other DAWs, it's the least legible and hardest to use GUI across all DAWs now IMHO and I've tried most of them over the last few years. 

 3: Get some feature parity with the competion. StudioOne and Cubase have left Cakewalk Sonar far behind now  -I find this sad as it used to be a leader and had features before everyone else. 

4: Communicate better with your user base - when was the last time we heard from Meng for example?  Seems like it was 5yrs ago

5: Lack of media coverage. Most of the other DAWs still have columns in Sound On Sound - we lost ours and the visibility of Cakwalk suffered. 

That's my list off the top of my head - whether anyone listens who knows but Mike has summed it up well and I thank him for that.   

Edited November 16 by Mark Morgon-Shaw

[Mr No Name]

I'll never stop using Cakewalk anyway, Mike can use what DAW he want's to.

[Mark Morgon-Shaw]

2 hours ago, Mr No Name said:

I'll never stop using Cakewalk anyway, Mike can use what DAW he want's to.

CbB or Cakewalk Sonar. Over time they will diverge and if the only way is a subscription plan then will you still always use it? 

[Alan Tubbs]

Nobody I know likes the subscription model.  Yet the #1 DAW is sub based - Pro tools.  We might not like it but it is a fact.  I don’t like paying taxes or co pays either.

i do think the roll out of of cakewalk sonar was … confusing.  It shouldn’t take so much effort to figure out what Cake is offering.  It is spread over various web pages and sites.  As far as I can tell Bandlab is mostly a social music site.  Cakewalk Sonar is a bonus for bandlab users that want to step up to pro output, but you have to keep paying.  Certainly not the straightest line.

But it is also true that  cakewalk use to charge $500, a year, for the full version of Sonars and also loaded with the latest synth that cost hundreds too. So your $150 a year sounds kind of puny and a good deal (even with out Dimension Pro or Rapture).  I never heard as much squealing over Sonar’s pricing. 
 

they are going to get your money one way or another.  It is natural to kick against the ***** but at some point you need to move forward.  My next choice would be Mixcraft since is a cheaper buy and works much the same as old Sonar.  But you know, you still have to pay for it, even if you buy it by paying off a credit card.

[Mr No Name]

1 hour ago, Mark Morgon-Shaw said:

CbB or Cakewalk Sonar. Over time they will diverge and if the only way is a subscription plan then will you still always use it? 

I don't think that will happen regardless of what Mike says.

[Terry Kelley]

Early on with the announcement of the new Sonar, Bandlab STRONGLY implied CbB would go away at some point and Sonar will remain rental only.  I know some think Bandlab is still making up their mind but some external discussions seem pretty clear - rental only. 
 

So the current situation isn’t all that odd for many of us.  Creative Sauce must see some dead end in the future and want to focus their resources on their view of the future. 

Edited November 16 by Terry Kelley

[Mr No Name]

3 minutes ago, Terry Kelley said:

Early on with the announcement of the new Sonar, Bandlab STRONGLY implied CbB would go away at some point and Sonar will remain rental only.  I know some think Bandlab is still making up their mind but some external discussions seem pretty clear - rental only. 
 

So the current situation isn’t all that odd for many of us. 

I'm pretty sure Bandlab have nothing to do with Cakewalk DAW anymore, it has been shifted to another part of the "corporation"

where it will be left, to gather dust. But still work with no updates.

anyway.

[Terry Kelley]

Could be. 

[Canopus]

12 hours ago, Alan Tubbs said:

Nobody I know likes the subscription model.  Yet the #1 DAW is sub based - Pro tools.

Avid offer two different licenses; subscription and perpetual.

Edited November 17 by Canopus

[Andi Rock]

41 minutes ago, Terry Kelley said:

Early on with the announcement of the new Sonar, Bandlab STRONGLY implied CbB would go away at some point and Sonar will remain rental only.  I know some think Bandlab is still making up their mind but some external discussions seem pretty clear - rental only. 
 

So the current situation isn’t all that odd for many of us.  Creative Sauce must see some dead end in the future and want to focus their resources on their view of the future. 

At the end of the day what is the difference between $150 a year subscription and upgrading your software every year for the same price? 

I guess the issue is the lifetime thing, but if you are that big of a fan of Sonar and want to see it continue, then this effort to get the product eternally for free is counter-intuitive.  

Edited November 16 by Andi Rock

[Amberwolf]

8 minutes ago, Andi Rock said:

At the end of the day what is the difference between $150 a year subscription and upgrading your software every year for the same price? 

None, if the software functions exactly the same either way.

But if the subscription running out means the software no longer does exactly what it did before it ran out, then it's a very different thing, and they cannot be directly compared.

[Andi Rock]

2 minutes ago, Amberwolf said:

None, if the software functions exactly the same either way.

But if the subscription running out means the software no longer does exactly what it did before it ran out, then it's a very different thing, and they cannot be directly compared.

Yes and that is a choice.  I guess you have to choose the side of wanting updated software constantly.  If you don't want updated software constantly that's cool, use the cakewalk by bandlab version then, but I don't see the problem.  The subscription includes constant updates.  That's what you're paying for it and it's worth it.  

Edited November 16 by Andi Rock

[Amberwolf]

And if that software / subscription is suddenly unavailable because of some factor (business decisions, corporate economic or technical disaster, etc), and your work is now trapped in it so that you cannot change anything anymore, export to other formats, etc?

 

If your livelihood revolves around this work, you may be stuck wasting money and time recreating everything in some other software or hardware solution, or even lose clients / opportunities, etc.   

If it's just a hobby, well, it depends on how important that hobby is to you (for me this hobby is so important for my sanity (such as it is )that I can't risk such a loss; for most that's probably not the case).  

 

I expect that for most people it doesn't matter--they'd just move on to the next thing, and it's more important to them that they have the latest whatever than that they keep being able to use it. 

 

If the software continued to operate fully but simply didn't get updates or support, that'd be different, and acceptable (for me),  but not if it changes functionality.   

This is why I won't use the current software (even though it has things I would love to use that would probably greatly help my workflow)--I see too many "activation problems"; once activated the software shouldn't require any further action or reactivation--they solved this issue with the original SONAR; once you have your codes they just always work. You're not stuck because of some server problem, network/internet issue, etc.   Same thing for 3rd party plugins, etc.   

[Mark Morgon-Shaw]

45 minutes ago, Andi Rock said:

At the end of the day what is the difference between $150 a year subscription and upgrading your software every year for the same price? 

The difference is if you don't care for the upgrades, what you already paid for becomes no longer useable. It becomes crippleware. 

I was happy on Sonar 8.5.3 for a almost a decade, right up until CbB. None of the new X-series features bothered me much until they added ARA in Sonar Platinum.

As a semi-pro I can't have access to my files held to ransom. This week a music company wanted a track I wrote 3yrs ago and had to deliver stems and altenative mixes for example. I don't mind paying the sticker price of the App either up front or over a time period but I believe that once it's paid for you should have the right to use that version with full functionality even if it's not the latest and greatest. I should be the one who decides whether new features will benefit me and pay accordingly.     

Edited November 16 by Mark Morgon-Shaw

[jfrommichigan]

First things, first... I would have paid for CBB at any moment, had they asked me to!  It would have been worth it, it is/was the best DAW Ive seen.

-  The reason I left is simple- the cloak and daggar nonsense got to the point, I no longer wanted any part of their offerings.

It wasnt a tease, its was basically "we're not sure whats going to happen, but somethings is going to happen" from the Devs. 

 

* For the record, I went with Studio One + for about 8 months, and finally just purchased outright. *

 

-  It makes me laugh when I see people dare mention the word "marketing" in the same sentence as Cakewalk or Bandlab.

There IS NO marketing team... WE ARE the only marketing team, and Cakewalk barely gets a mention in the typical "What Is The Best FREE DAW" conversations. lol.  I'm pretty sure "Tickle Me Elmo's sound byte toy" gets more mentions.  That is truly embarrassing, Cakewalk should have been in the "best overall, free OR paid" discussion.

And now, it gets even less discussion, as a paid product.

-  Creative Sauce bailing is a nail in the coffin, as it was the best thing Cakewalk had going for it.  And you KNOW that if he bailed, **** is bad.  Pretty much his whole existence was because of the Cakewalk users.

- He has been warning y'all at CBB for a long time now, and you chose not to listen. 

Don't forget to shut the light off, when you guys (have to) leave.

Edited November 16 by jfrommichigan

[Andi Rock]

3 hours ago, jfrommichigan said:

First things, first... I would have paid for CBB at any moment, had they asked me to!  It would have been worth it, it is/was the best DAW Ive seen.

-  The reason I left is simple- the cloak and daggar nonsense got to the point, I no longer wanted any part of their offerings.

It wasnt a tease, its was basically "we're not sure whats going to happen, but somethings is going to happen" from the Devs. 

 

* For the record, I went with Studio One + for about 8 months, and finally just purchased outright. *

 

-  It makes me laugh when I see people dare mention the word "marketing" in the same sentence as Cakewalk or Bandlab.

There IS NO marketing team... WE ARE the only marketing team, and Cakewalk barely gets a mention in the typical "What Is The Best FREE DAW" conversations. lol.  I'm pretty sure "Tickle Me Elmo's sound byte toy" gets more mentions.  That is truly embarrassing, Cakewalk should have been in the "best overall, free OR paid" discussion.

And now, it gets even less discussion, as a paid product.

-  Creative Sauce bailing is a nail in the coffin, as it was the best thing Cakewalk had going for it.  And you KNOW that if he bailed, **** is bad.  Pretty much his whole existence was because of the Cakewalk users.

- He has been warning y'all at CBB for a long time now, and you chose not to listen. 

Don't forget to shut the light off, when you guys (have to) leave.

Meh idgaf about what that dude says or does.  The product has been getting better and better ever since bandlab saved sonar or whatever you want to call it.  This **** reminds me of like a late 90s IRC room... You toxic hating dudes can go ahead and go the way the Buffalo as far as I'm concerned. I love Cakewalk it's the best daw ever and I am more than grateful anything that it has somehow managed to continue thanks to these dudes at bandlab or whoever they are that saved it.

 

You literally have access to cakewalk by bandlab for free for eternity, all you have to do is not update to the newest **** and this won't be a problem for you, so stop over dramatizing it.  

Edited November 17 by Andi Rock