Gain Staging

[giant ll]

Hello all. I use an app: Mvmeter 2. I usually set it to -18 Db.

Then.. if the 0 in the Mvmeter is set to -18DB.. i use to get all the tracks at about -3(i mean -3 in the scale of MVMETER). It should be a little bit under the -18 ideal value that is the 0.

If i put it on 0.. it get a little bit louder with some guitar sound.

Usually setting my audio Card input level to don't get the red level.. and i have a control panel for this.. i have a little bit lighter signal than 0..

After recording i use the gain, for gain staging.

If a track is too much under -18Db.. so under the 0 of MvTrack i put up the gain with Ctrl left button of the mouse and up mouse..

If it is too high.. i make the opposite.

Is that correct? NB: i use the 0 of MVMeter that is set to -18 DB not as peak but.. as medium value.

After all i make equalization and in the end the mastering

Edited October 7, 2024 by giant ll

[giant ll]

25 minutes ago, giant ll said:

Now i've could understood. You mean the peak level(right number), not the level on the knob, that's correct?  If yes, i'could thinking to other in last answer.

Anyway.. some peaks are indicated before that this tracks start in that screenshot, it was taken in a moment. Tracks that aren't sounding. Or the bass is particular in that project.  Anyway here they are different: We don't have anymore a so low peak in the bass. This is the photo now. We don't have anymore -19.

 

The peaks before that the instrument start or is full playng.. can be some little noise in background sometimes also. i delete all of them before exporting.

[Sock Monkey]

The track level looks ok.  One thing is you have turned your master level down. That is after the Processors and the You Lean meter. Always keep the master at unity for evaluating a mix. You could be clipping the effects and not realize it. 
It will also give you a false reading of the YLM. 

The topic of this thread is Signal flow. 
It’s actually really simple. 
It goes from top to bottom 

Edited January 9 by Sock Monkey

[giant ll]

4 hours ago, Sock Monkey said:

he track level looks ok.  One thing is you have turned your master level down. That is after the Processors and the You Lean meter. Always keep the master at unity for evaluating a mix. You could be clipping the effects and not realize it. 
It will also give you a false reading of the YLM. 

Ok, thank You very much for the answers. Master level now is flat, i've moved. I work with the equalizer now. I had put it lower a bit because of some unwanted red and high LUFS that disappear putting the master level a bit down. But .. yes, there are better way to work on it.

Now i have another problem, i don't wanna disturb to much, i wouldn't like to be too long. I try to explain easily: i record the acoustic guitar, the peak level of the recording, indicated under the track in the console vies is something like -60 in the track. Is difficult for me to work starting with something like this. Can be that i'm a little tired and i've made a mistake withouth see it. In the master the signal is present, but under the track i don't see nothing. You know what happened? I'm reading only this track. Shouldn't i see a signal also in the source track? Why the level indicated in the track is so low? It's track 3. Now i have -42.6. You know what happened? I ear it very well. How could i make something to the track in cases like this? The signal in the panel of my soundcard input is good and also the signal in the master. Probable i made something wrong. You can see that there is a green line on the master -9.4. Nothing appear on track 3, it seem that i'm not reading it.

Edited January 7 by giant ll

[David Baay]

33 minutes ago, giant ll said:

i record the acoustic guitar, the peak level of the recording, indicated under the track in the console vies is something like -60 in the track. Is difficult for me to work starting with something like this.

Dis-Arm the track. When armed for recording, the meter shows the Input level.

[Mr No Name]

22 hours ago, giant ll said:

Interesting, is the auto gain in the link you gave me totally available with the demo version, or you have to buy the pay version for exporting? Does it have limitations?

the analogue stage is a better plug in imo, it goes on sale often, it will automatically scan your file to see the "strength" of it how much gain it has, and will automatically adjust it to -18 dbfs. very good, I recommend experimenting, other vst makers might have other ones. using a VU meter is actually easier and better than just trying to find -18 on a digital meter.

 

once you have "recorded" and all your channel faders are set at zero ( your gain staging is not done on the channel faders it's done on the gain knobs  )you then mix using the faders to set the balance of the mix, not touching the gain knobs anymore,

[Mr No Name]

interesting video here for a bit of a curveball, interesting stuff from an audio interface/preamp expert.

 

[giant ll]

23 hours ago, giant ll said:

Interesting, is the auto gain in the link you gave me totally available with the demo version, or you have to buy the pay version for exporting? Does it have limitations?

The answer was this. It doesn't seem to me an answer to my question. My question was a "rethorical question". I've imagined that withouth pay, with this software, you couldn't make what we were talking about and export withouth limit. I'm talking about that link that you gave me. I just would have the confirmation. There was a demo version, i don't know how "far" can the demo version "arrive". Was a reply to a particular part of your message and was a  specific question. I was curious.

Edited January 7 by giant ll

[Mr No Name]

7 minutes ago, giant ll said:

The answer was this. It doesn't seem to me an answer to my question. My question was a "rethorical question". I've imagined that withouth pay, with this software, you couldn't make what we were talking about and export withouth limit. I'm talking about that link that you gave me. I just would have the confirmation. There was a demo version, i don't know how "far" can the demo version "arrive". Was a reply to a particular part of your message and was a  specific question. I was curious.

from hornet website:

Demo

The demo is fully functional except for the fact that every now and then it will silence out, you cannot save parameter values with your session and the plugin will not respond to automation coming from the host.

[giant ll]

11 hours ago, Mr No Name said:

from hornet website:

Demo

The demo is fully functional except for the fact that every now and then it will silence out, you cannot save parameter values with your session and the plugin will not respond to automation coming from the host.

Now i have an issue, technical problem and i don't have time to investigate. I will try it or other similar autogain app that have free try in the next days.

[giant ll]

On 1/7/2025 at 5:46 PM, Sock Monkey said:

The track level looks ok.  One thing is you have turned your master level down. That is after the Processors and the You Lean meter. Always keep the master at unity for evaluating a mix. You could be clipping the effects and not realize it. 
It will also give you a false reading of the YLM. 

The topic of this thread is Signal flow. 
It’s actually really simple. 
It goes from top to bottom 

I forgot an important thing: The peak of you where talking about depends also from the equalization. I'm talking on some particular tracks. It changes lot and lot if you work on eq. Also who made famous videos on gain staging told that the numer are number... but it's also important to "ear".

When you start with a track weak for sure, you can put the gain up.. but i think it's not the only things to do. The quality of the source is essential to have a good result and you can't arrive sometimes.

Also if i add 6 of gain more.. sometimes isn't enough. And equalization is essential.

Example: You remember the track you told me the peak was too low, about -19? Also.. changing the equalization..peak go  to -5 or higher. - But the result? The sound become  strident, jarring. Same file, same project. Only who listen to it can ear exactly what is happening. The basis i think it's also working with a good source and using an equalization that is good for this kind of instrument, this particular sound.

 

Edit: i had made a mistake in written. I would like to correct: From -19 to -5.. the peak changed using equalization and gain toghether, not only the equalization and not only gain.

Edited January 13 by giant ll
mistake in writing

[giant ll]

I0ve changed something. Now i have same level of commercial videos that i was saying.. and i'm not using Loudmax to "unpower" in that way than before.. Just limit at -1 with Limiter no6 and using it with a much much moderate way to unpower.. and just some compressor. I don't have 9 db of before differences.

I've organized all the tracks in different colors..

I'm using 7 busses:

Master, Metronome(to ear the metronome in a particular way in some exporting), Reverb, Rhythm, Solo, Melody.

I've re-equalized some tracks.. because something before i didn't like. Some peaks where higher.. but some guitars where a bit harsh. I had to cut some high frequences.. and with similar level of listening.. some peaks are going a bit down. But the final volume is similar. Now in Loudness Meter i have -1.2 Db True peak max and -13 LUFS integrated.  It is a middle way .

All single tracks are near to -18.. using Vmeter.

I have 2 really low peaks:  track 7 and track 20.. but they are just some note.. and really in background.. i ear it well in the general arrangement. This arrangements has got lot of different dymamics, from difficult to ear to very strenght.. I ear them good like this

Some peaks moving during the song.. and some track aren't started in full way.. in the photo.

Now the fader of the master it's put back to neutral position.

Edited January 13 by giant ll

[giant ll]

Also there is a particular thing: When i use Mvmeter to monitor every track, using value reference to -18(-18 is 0) i should theorically have the medium part of the meter at -18, not the peak. This every tutorial i've seen say..

The problem is that

1)i have a too big oxillation with this instrument, if i record classical acoustic guitar with my soundcard. If i put  on -18.. the big oxillation make going a bit too out.. the Mvmeter sign red.. and the sound is horrible, is dirty.

The cakewalk master don't go to red.. but on orange and sometimes sound is not clean.

I have to stay in everytrack a little bit under the 0(Mvmeter)=-18 with this setup. And the final result sounds more clean in that way. But.. in that way i need more "empowerment" during the process in that way.

Edited Thursday at 02:26 PM by giant ll