Gain Staging

[giant ll]

Hello all. I use an app: Mvmeter 2. I usually set it to -18 Db.

Then.. if the 0 in the Mvmeter is set to -18DB.. i use to get all the tracks at about -3(i mean -3 in the scale of MVMETER). It should be a little bit under the -18 ideal value that is the 0.

If i put it on 0.. it get a little bit louder with some guitar sound.

Usually setting my audio Card input level to don't get the red level.. and i have a control panel for this.. i have a little bit lighter signal than 0..

After recording i use the gain, for gain staging.

If a track is too much under -18Db.. so under the 0 of MvTrack i put up the gain with Ctrl left button of the mouse and up mouse..

If it is too high.. i make the opposite.

Is that correct? NB: i use the 0 of MVMeter that is set to -18 DB not as peak but.. as medium value.

After all i make equalization and in the end the mastering

Edited October 7, 2024 by giant ll

[Glenn Stanton]

it depends on the headroom and noise etc. if you're recording it so you're not getting clipping or unwanted saturation in the preamp etc, then if the right level is -8 or -6, or -12, then choose that. with digital as long as you're not clipping, and as long as your input levels are sounding good, then it should be good. then when mixing, you'll do your volume level and send levels to provide the FX, busses etc with levels that they can handle.

[Sock Monkey]

Because I come from the world of recording to a machine I simply carried on using the same technique. I set my input gains below the threshold where they can clip. If I see Red I back it off. End of story. 

Loud is good! -18 db? That’s for folk music! 
 

Edited January 9 by Sock Monkey

[giant ll]

On 12/21/2024 at 1:20 AM, Sock Monkey said:

If I see Red I back it off. End of story. 

Yes. That's clear. I would have a question about if it's possible. About mastering but the two things are connected:

For don't going to red.. and also too much orange.. i had to reduce the gain of the guitar and the level of backing track, to put them at the same level.

The final level.. was too low and so.. i used limiter no6. I've put a peak on -1Db... as usual.. and put a little bit of enpowering.

 

Now i have the same level of some commercial Youtube videos, very good level, -11.5 LUFS integrated that i can bring also to -12, it's not a problem, the sound seem to me  clean for a homemade work.  But: How you can see in the photo i had to put the gain of peak limiter menu at +8, threshold to -1, Mode soft etc..

 

Is that normal putting the gain to +8 or should i find another way? Is too much?

Also i used in limiter, as you can see in the photo: compressor and protection.

 

Another thing is this: If i would add also Loudmax as maximizer with some settings to Limiter no6 i could enpower it much more.. but i prefer don't make it. I didn't make it. The sound would result a bit compressed in that way and withouth real attack.

Edited December 22, 2024 by giant ll

[Sock Monkey]

A while ago I downloaded and tested 60 free and almost free Compressors and limiters. The one you are showing failed my tests. First it coloured the sound and second it output something like -0.03 db when set to -1.0  

 

The winner of the Brickwall test was Loudmax. when pushed hard it seem to never drop below -0.8db.  And it had no colouration.  https://loudmax.blogspot.com/

  

Edited January 9 by Sock Monkey

[giant ll]

On 12/22/2024 at 10:35 PM, Sock Monkey said:

The winner of the Brickwall test was Loudmax. when pushed hard it seem to never drop below -0.8db.  And it had no colouration.  https://loudmax.blogspot.com/

Hi. I'm trying to use Loudmax on my next project. The last one was made with Limiter no6.

In this case how can you see in the photoes, it gave me much volume and it's important but i have a problem: The peak max.  I've set Loudmax with the limit Out: -1 Db. As peak. LUFS are ok... but i have 0.3 on the Loudness meter measuring it! Why? You can see the photoes now. It seem  that something isn't go good.

Edited January 4 by giant ll

[giant ll]

9 hours ago, Sock Monkey said:

The easy fix then would be to turn up all your buses the same amount or turn up the Gain on the Master by about 5.5 db

Unfortunately i cannot make like this during the mixing process because all would go to red. I'm on the ceiling of the gain that it give me the permission to use to stay on "green zone". Also if i mix my track with a commercial backing track, is the same, i have to put it down if i want to use it.

Now i would like also to analyze some points:

1)the quality of the  source, if there is something that could be important.

2)try different limiters: with Limiter no6 i've reached some nice final results.. but to reach the same volume of other commercial videos,  with a clean and nice sound, with this configuration, this audiocard, this setup.. not always is easy. There are different free plugins and i'm trying to get the differences using similar work.

The problem of the lower final volume.. is that the people who listen have a bad impression if they change video and the difference in level is big. Also.. if they want to listen as the same level of other video they have to put up the volume of the speakers.. and with some speakers it will be a worse general clean in the sound.

Edited January 5 by giant ll

[Sock Monkey]

What I’m not understanding is that you show that you had to turn up the Loud Max by 9.0 db to achieve the reading on the You Lean meter. But I also see the Loud Max is working way to hard. This can result in diminishing sound quality. It should only show very occasionally that it is working. 
Having to turn up the gain ? This tells me that your mix had unused headroom.  And then you turned the Gain of the Limiter up instead of feeding your master bus a stronger signal. 
Are you sure all your buses are going to the Master? Mute the master to test. 
 

 

[giant ll]

26 minutes ago, Sock Monkey said:

Mute the master to test. 

If i put the master in Mute, no sounds come off. If i press play all is mute. Only silence. Do you mean this kind of test?

[Sock Monkey]

3 hours ago, giant ll said:

If i put the master in Mute, no sounds come off. If i press play all is mute. Only silence. Do you mean this kind of test?

Yes that’s the best way to confirm that all tracks and buses are going to the master bus. You’d be surprised how many times I find the last instrument I inserted defaulted to the hardware . 

[giant ll]

2 hours ago, Sock Monkey said:

Yes that’s the best way to confirm that all tracks and buses are going to the master bus

Ok. I confirm. Only silence.

[Sock Monkey]

You know what might be helpful is if you take a screenshot of the console view while the song is playing. 

[hsmusic]

On 1/4/2025 at 4:54 PM, giant ll said:

Hi. I'm trying to use Loudmax on my next project. The last one was made with Limiter no6.

In this case how can you see in the photoes, it gave me much volume and it's important but i have a problem: The peak max.  I've set Loudmax with the limit Out: -1 Db. As peak. LUFS are ok... but i have 0.3 on the Loudness meter measuring it! Why? You can see the photoes now. It seem  that something isn't go good.

I never tried this limiter but judging by your pic it appears that the ISP is turned off. Turn it on plus check any oversampling options for true peak limiting.

[giant ll]

11 hours ago, Sock Monkey said:

You know what might be helpful is if you take a screenshot of the console view while the song is playing. 

Ok. The question about the 9db.. can be applied also to other similar projects:

I'm making this project again with similar characteristics, because i have found some better solutions in the source sound. Source is the basis.. so something will change, but same console view and settings.

I will complete in a couple of days i think..  I will make the screenshot and send it here, so we will could analyze it. Should have no sense now make you loose time on old projects that they are been deleted. I will quote your message again when it's ready, so i think you will receive the notification.

Edited January 6 by giant ll

[giant ll]

19 hours ago, Sock Monkey said:

You know what might be helpful is if you take a screenshot of the console view while the song is playing. 

Here another project with lot of tracks. This work differently because i used every single track in indipendent mode and make them go to the Master, in the other i organized tracks in groups. But.. the example can work the same, there is same volume. In this case i used Limiter no.6 insted than Loudmax, to gain the dB that i didn't have in the final project.. but it's the same. Here you can see the Console View, i have lot different examples, worked in different mode, but the way is the same. I had to obtain some "final volume" using the limiter.. because the exported file sounded too low respect to other commercial videos.

Here you can see the final result with loudness meter, after having "empowered" the project.

Edited January 6 by giant ll

[Mr No Name]

Send like sounds/instruments to busses first then use a clipper, then send your busses to master out, use a limiter, use an auto gain vst on your channels to set gain to -18b dbfs which is equal to 0 on a VU meter (analogue zero) you will have plenty of headroom and be able to get final track clear and loud  -7 lufs.

 

https://www.hornetplugins.com/plugins/hornet-analogstage-mk2/

 

https://www.hornetplugins.com/plugins/hornet-autogain/

[Sock Monkey]

You have the You Lean meter in the middle with Ozone after. You Lean goes last. 

Your not using Sub buses? 

There doesn't seemed to be anything much in the project? only a couple of tracks?  But some of the meters show they have peak readings? 

 meters showing activity all are either very hot. - 0.1 or very low.  - 19? 

[giant ll]

15 hours ago, Sock Monkey said:

You have the You Lean meter in the middle with Ozone after. You Lean goes last

Moved

15 hours ago, Sock Monkey said:

Your not using Sub buses? 

You mean

1)the buses divided for effect, for example: all the rhythmn.. send to bus 1 with two effect in the bus, all the melodys send to bus 2: another effect in the bus.. and something like this? It is an old file and i used make "every" track with different effects.. because the Rhythm that are good in a track are horrible in another.. is a little bit difficult arrangement to use like this.

Or mean

2)diving in different categoriies and send to buses but using in every track his own effect?send to bus the category and send the bus to the master?

The category 1: i was made an experiment.. playing.. but didn't have so much diving of effects using. It's made in the photo with different colors.

Category 2: didn't try.

Or other?

15 hours ago, Sock Monkey said:

There doesn't seemed to be anything much in the project? only a couple of tracks? 

 

No.. there are different tracks, but they don't play always together. They alternate.

 

 

15 hours ago, Sock Monkey said:

meters showing activity all are either very hot. - 0.1 or very low.  - 19? 

There are different tracks and don't stay all in the same screen to check all together.. or i should make a higher definition to the monitor. Anyway a video could be better give idea of the general movement .. because some track with low value are just don't playing or sounding or make just one or two note in all the song. Anyway could try to adjust.

Wich value do you mean exactly?

the bass? i had to put his level much much down.. to make it at the same volume of the maximum level that he permit me to the guitar withouth going to red. Because bass and guitar should be at similar level. You can see i had to bring lot down.. Sometimes the tracks with very low peaks of volume are the tracks that i had to put down and down to put them at the same level if you mean this. Could be that i didn't get the answer.

 

Track 4 as more low  i have the peak.. as more better sounds. In the sense that when i try to cut frequences too much.. sound really worse. I can try to analyze and eventually delete and overwrite this track. Can be that something is gone bad in the source.

15 hours ago, Sock Monkey said:

activity all are either very hot. - 0.1

now the higher is - 0.9.

Anyway it's not related to my project that i was talking for.. this is old and was just an example to investigate about why the final volume must always be so low. My project is another and 'ill send it in the next days how i told.

 

I have checked every single track with Mv Meter set at -18. 0 is -18.

 

 

Edited January 7 by giant ll

[giant ll]

3 hours ago, Mr No Name said:

use an auto gain vst on your channels to set gain to -18b dbfs which is equal to 0 on a VU meter (analogue zero)

Interesting, is the auto gain in the link you gave me totally available with the demo version, or you have to buy the pay version for exporting? Does it have limitations?

[giant ll]

16 hours ago, Sock Monkey said:

meters showing activity all are either very hot. - 0.1 or very low.  - 19? 

Now i've could understood. You mean the peak level(right number), not the level on the knob, that's correct?  If yes, i'could thinking to other in last answer.

Anyway.. some peaks are indicated before that this tracks start in that screenshot, it was taken in a moment. Tracks that aren't sounding. Or the bass is particular in that project.  Anyway here they are different: We don't have anymore a so low peak in the bass. This is the photo now. We don't have anymore -19.

 

Edited January 7 by giant ll

[giant ll]