Export via Menu OR via Module

[Roy Slough]

Up until now I have been exporting MP3 & Wavs via the menu option. I did not realise that this method was routed via the "speaker" bus.  Hence if I was monitoring at a lower level then the resulting file would also be at a lower level.
Now, I have looked at the Export function in the export module. This offers far fewer options, does this also route through the "monitor" bus or is it direct from the master bus?

Basically which method should I be using to export files. Ideally the level at which I am monitoring through my speakers/headphones etc. should not affect the mixed output file.

Thanks

[OutrageProductions]

The Export module is exactly the same no matter where you source it from (ie: menu/Shortcut key 'E', etc).

Make the changes necessary in the <Sources> section, generally to 'Master' buss, but YMMV. You probably have your default set to 'Hardware Outputs'.

[Amberwolf]

Are you adjusting your monitor levels at the monitors, or at the master bus?

If the former, it won't*** affect your export, but doing so at the master bus will, if that is the source for your export. 

 ***(assuming they are typical and do not have a control surface type of control hardware feedback into SONAR)

 

If your monitors have no volume control (at the monitors or the amp, etc), you can also create a separate monitor bus from your master bus, that the master bus feeds.  The monitor bus then feeds the hardware output. Set the monitor bus to whatever levels/etc you want, but leave the master bus set for the final actual output levels you intend everyone to hear.  Then when you export, choose the master bus as the source. 

For export in this case, I would normally choose "what you hear" as the preset, select the bit depth desired, give it a file name, and choose Buses as the source, and select just the Master bus, so you get only the output that has the correct mix. 

 

On my old M-audio FastTrackPro USB hardware, it has a headphone volume control separate from the main out volume control, but both of these only affect the output signal to the world, and don't change anything about the mix or levels inside the computer.   So I use those knobs to alter my listening volume, and do whatever's needed at the busses inside SONAR for the mix itself to get the final file output volume I need, and the listening volume does not affect the exports. 

So I just use What you hear for the export preset and leave it set to "entire mix", and I get it just like I need it. 

[Roy Slough]

15 hours ago, Amberwolf said:

Are you adjusting your monitor levels at the monitors, or at the master bus?

If the former, it won't*** affect your export, but doing so at the master bus will, if that is the source for your export. 

 ***(assuming they are typical and do not have a control surface type of control hardware feedback into SONAR)

 

If your monitors have no volume control (at the monitors or the amp, etc), you can also create a separate monitor bus from your master bus, that the master bus feeds.  The monitor bus then feeds the hardware output. Set the monitor bus to whatever levels/etc you want, but leave the master bus set for the final actual output levels you intend everyone to hear.  Then when you export, choose the master bus as the source. 

For export in this case, I would normally choose "what you hear" as the preset, select the bit depth desired, give it a file name, and choose Buses as the source, and select just the Master bus, so you get only the output that has the correct mix. 

 

On my old M-audio FastTrackPro USB hardware, it has a headphone volume control separate from the main out volume control, but both of these only affect the output signal to the world, and don't change anything about the mix or levels inside the computer.   So I use those knobs to alter my listening volume, and do whatever's needed at the busses inside SONAR for the mix itself to get the final file output volume I need, and the listening volume does not affect the exports. 

So I just use What you hear for the export preset and leave it set to "entire mix", and I get it just like I need it. 

 

18 hours ago, OutrageProductions said:

The Export module is exactly the same no matter where you source it from (ie: menu/Shortcut key 'E', etc).

Make the changes necessary in the <Sources> section, generally to 'Master' buss, but YMMV. You probably have your default set to 'Hardware Outputs'.

Thanks, not sure why but my experience is not the same as yours.....

If you look at my 1st Screenshot it shows the monitor fader on the far right - not part of the mixing buses and it changes if I change my output to a USB driven set of speakers.
Indeed when I first started using Cakewalk I didn't know this section was here, so I used to have to go to my speakers and adjust the volume there and just cope with whatever headphone volume I got. 
My headphones do not have volume controls so I adjust this fader as necessary i.e. lower for general mixing/monitoring but higher when I need to hear something specific/subtle. My nearfield monitors have a remote so I could adjust here but my Big monitors are powered via an amplifier on the other side of the room. It is easier to adjust the fader.

When you see the 2nd screenshot and I choose Entire Mix it seems to be routed through this monitor mix.

If I chose Buses as the source (3rd Screenshot) , all the buses are initially selected,  but the Drum mix,  Vox Mix, Guitar mix etc. are all routed to the master, so are you suggesting I deselect all but the master?  

And finally If I choose export from the module (Top right in screen shot 1) I do not see the options (Screenshot 2&3)  all I get is the option for the file name & bit depth.

Thanks again, all comments help me better understand how/what is going on (and I hope any future readers of these posts)

 

[Xoo]

Different Source Category: Buses vs Entire Mix.

[Bass Guitar]

I've always used Entire Mix. 

[Amberwolf]

5 hours ago, Roy Slough said:

If you look at my 1st Screenshot it shows the monitor fader on the far right - not part of the mixing buses and it changes if I change my output to a USB driven set of speakers.

I don't use the console view (or inspector), so I'm not familiar with it's layout or controls.  I only use the controls directly in the  bus tracks and the automation envelopes I create for them. 

 

I only do export from the file menu, so I don't know what dialog options exist doing it from other places. My SONAR is also very old (list of reasons given in another post somewhere), so my options may be different from yours. 

 

5 hours ago, Roy Slough said:

Indeed when I first started using Cakewalk I didn't know this section was here, so I used to have to go to my speakers and adjust the volume there and just cope with whatever headphone volume I got. 
My headphones do not have volume controls so I adjust this fader as necessary i.e. lower for general mixing/monitoring but higher when I need to hear something specific/subtle. My nearfield monitors have a remote so I could adjust here but my Big monitors are powered via an amplifier on the other side of the room. It is easier to adjust the fader.

For this scenario, I recommend creating a "headphone" or "monitor" bus that is what feeds your hardware output, with no fx or anything, you're simply using it as a fader for your ears.   

Then set your master bus to feed to that bus, instead of the hardware output. 

 Then export using Bus instead of entire mix, and choose only the master bus.  

 

FWIW, there are small volume control boxes you can get for headphones.  I used to use one that was part of an old computer-speaker set, but since the interface I'm presently using has a separate hp control I haven't had it connected in years (probalby in a box around here). 

A random google link to a page with some versions of this kind of thing

https://www.amazon.com/headphone-volume-control/s?k=headphone+volume+control

Some of them can be mounted / taped / glued to your desk/etc., some clip to the cord, and so on. 

 

Also, if it's still out there anywhere, I also recommend for just the phone/speaker bus's fx bin an old plugin called "Bill T Ear Protection", which has a shutoff function (protect) if the levels go above some amount (I forget what it is but it turns the outputs off for spikes that could damage your ears or speakers).  Was made by a forum or newsgroup member. If it's not around, there's probably other things that do the same job.   In that bin it can't affect your exports. 

I use this type of protection as part of my base template because I experiment with sounds a lot, and sometimes a synth or effect does something unexpected at an output level I would not expect possible.  These things prevent that from blowing me or my equipment up. 

EDIT: Didn't get any hits at all searching for BTEP, but a similar free plugin shows up here

https://www.kvraudio.com/product/ice9-automute-by-cerberus-audio

the original site is gone, but freevstplugins still has it here:

https://freevstplugins.net/cerberus-audio-ice9-automute/

 

 

 

 

5 hours ago, Roy Slough said:

If I chose Buses as the source (3rd Screenshot) , all the buses are initially selected,  but the Drum mix,  Vox Mix, Guitar mix etc. are all routed to the master, so are you suggesting I deselect all but the master?  

If you leave them all selected, I think it creates a separate file for each bus.  this is actually useful if you want to master or mix outside SONAR or collaborations, or just archive things for backup.  You can do the same thing with Tracks and have it export each track as a separate file as well.  

I haven't used that function in a lot of years so I could be mistaken. (or it might have changed in all the versions since then). 

 

Edited September 30 by Amberwolf