Carl Ewing Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 4 hours ago, MusicMan said: iZotope is terrible for all this as well.. another reason why they're such a great fit with NI and that's not something they should be proud of... If I could just purchase a new version of Ozone, RX, whatever and have it open old sessions the upgrades might be more appealing. I couldn't be bothered updating to their latest versions for that reason alone. Plus, they often force you to install VST2 and AAX with some of theirs and so then I need multiple major versions of software installed along with corresponding VST2, AAX, etc for each one that I'll never use.. wastes plugin scan times in multiple DAWs and actually some of those formats have caused errors when scanning all plugins. Epic fail on both NI and iZotope and a great example of how not to be as a developer. Absolutely. I will give NI credit for at least trying to make their ecosystem a little easier to manage / install / upgrade. As crappy as it is, it's a step in the right direction. The back compatibility issues are absolutely unacceptable though. But I have no idea what iZotope's Product Portal is supposed to be - that has to be one of the most awful pieces of software I've ever used. And I have Output's Arcade installed, so that's saying a lot. I wish these developers would look to a companies like Spectrasonics. I opened a project from 2012 today (2012!!) and everything loaded 100% perfect with a dozen instances of Omnisphere. Never even noticed that they've kept the VST / .dll file named "Omnisphere" for over 12 years (not Omnisphere 1, Omnisphere 2), and the raw omnisphere midi sounds identical to how it sounded in my 2012 mixdowns. Considering how many features they've added in the last 12 years, that is incredible. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy1 Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 5 hours ago, Carl Ewing said: Absolutely. I will give NI credit for at least trying to make their ecosystem a little easier to manage / install / upgrade. As crappy as it is, it's a step in the right direction. The back compatibility issues are absolutely unacceptable though. But I have no idea what iZotope's Product Portal is supposed to be - that has to be one of the most awful pieces of software I've ever used. And I have Output's Arcade installed, so that's saying a lot. I wish these developers would look to a companies like Spectrasonics. I opened a project from 2012 today (2012!!) and everything loaded 100% perfect with a dozen instances of Omnisphere. Never even noticed that they've kept the VST / .dll file named "Omnisphere" for over 12 years (not Omnisphere 1, Omnisphere 2), and the raw omnisphere midi sounds identical to how it sounded in my 2012 mixdowns. Considering how many features they've added in the last 12 years, that is incredible. Not sure what NI is trying to do with their eco system as the previous version of Asshat worked. Product Poor2'All became that when the 3 headed monster was formed. I'm getting tied of developers with these distribution apps. Them some of them make it a treasure hunt for direct download. It is a necessary evil when you have a large catalog. Small companies seem to have an advantage of less overhead by having less products. A lot f older stuff still works on a Windows OS. Not every company can be like Sectrasonics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy1 Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 8 hours ago, John Maar said: Now they are copying Steinberg's business model. Other than 3rd party VST2 and VST3 plugins (I have over 900 of them) that have to license and use Steinberg's SDKs, I am Steinberg- (and Waves-) free. 👍 Steinberg is slowly taking over my system after the news of Finale. In some ways Steinberg has gotten better. They have a 3 machine limit and you can deauthorize if too many system changes. No need to move a dongle around. It is getting harder to keep DAWs and software offline these days. I'm don't really loath them anymore. There's always another developer to take their place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magic Russ Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 11 hours ago, Carl Ewing said: As someone who is constantly having to open legacy projects for ongoing multi-season / sequel projects, it's infuriating. Native Instruments is infamous for it's terrible backend engineering and file management, and nothing epitomizes this than having to have Kontakt 4, 5, 6, 7...and now 8...installed to open projects going back 5+ years. And then having to have multiple versions of some libraries on legacy drives, because all the nonsense they do in between versions (and kontakt file specifications) means developers need to update conform with no backward compatability. If I start a day knowing I need to open projects from 2018, I know I'll spend an hour or two just dealing with various Kontakt version not knowing where anything is, even though everything is installed AND linked through Native Access. And if any older libraries have been batch saved to ensure smooth operation in the god awful performance of Kontakt 7, those libraries will no longer work in Kontakt 4, 5, 6, and I will need the original files in order to connect and load in legacy projects. Then there's the wonderful "find missing files" dialogue, that even when pointing it to the right files, it often won't actually load anything and Kontakt will load blank. To solve this? I have to have legacy versions of my DAW installed, so I can try and open the project in the same state is was in many years ago - since sometimes that works - hoping that somehow Kontakt will figure it out - then I can copy the properly loaded project settings into the new DAW session. NI is the ****ing worst. I love their products from a creative point of view, but they cost me $1000s a year is lost productivity because their software is so god awfully engineered, with not a damn ounce of concern for how major backend decision will affect their customers, and that they're spitting out Kontakt versions simply to milk their customers base not caring how much of a nightmare this is for professionals. I could throw a chair through a wall some days with how much time I lose dealing with this nonsense. Now that I hear Kontakt 8 is coming out I've decided to start meditating again. They called Kontakt 6 just plain Kontakt, and I was hoping they were going to keep on that track so that you don't have to keep older versions around. Unfortunately you will need to keep Kontakt 5 around for the ability to import certain external file formats as they lost licensing for the conversion code after that release. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antler Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 1 hour ago, Magic Russ said: They called Kontakt 6 just plain Kontakt, and I was hoping they were going to keep on that track so that you don't have to keep older versions around. Perhaps that was the vision - just one version (with the same plugin ID), which updates with new features over time. But that might have been before the merge with iZotope and PA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Wichrowski Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 11 hours ago, Craig Fowler said: Don't care about a new version of Kontakt...I just want a Native Access that works! They just updated some protocols and Windows 7 users cannot log anymore in Native Access without using a proxy. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Hintze Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 I am still looking for new features of Kontakt 8 that justify an entirely new version.. The feature changes I see are minimal..?.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralfrobert Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 5 minutes ago, Peter Hintze said: I am still looking for new features of Kontakt 8 that justify an entirely new version.. The feature changes I see are minimal..?.. The new feature: additional costs for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy1 Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 12 hours ago, Craig Fowler said: Don't care about a new version of Kontakt...I just want a Native Access that works! Pipe dream at best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Ewing Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 14 hours ago, kitekrazy1 said: Small companies seem to have an advantage of less overhead by having less products. A lot f older stuff still works on a Windows OS. Not every company can be like Sectrasonics. This isn't a problem of scale. It's an intentional decision on the developer side. Most of NI / iZotope's problems come from too much walling off of sequential versions with poorly thought out (and inevitably dropped) feature sets. They've created a cluster**** of coding mess, conflicting encryption protocols, file extension / folder structure messes that mean various libraries can't be read by various version of Kontakt. This has nothing to do with overhead or how many products they sell. It's just terrible software engineering with non-existent consideration for backward compatibility. This could be fixed quite literally by one guy working full time for a couple months. I'm sure NI can afford it, considering it's their flagship product and the vast majority of their product catalog is built on it. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antler Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 3 hours ago, Carl Ewing said: It's just terrible software engineering with non-existent consideration for backward compatibility. This could be fixed quite literally by one guy working full time for a couple months. I'm sure NI can afford it, considering it's their flagship product and the vast majority of their product catalog is built on it. To be fair, it's not always the devs' fault. People come and go along with management changes, and sometimes that means overall knowledge of the product decreases within the team. And in places with higher levels of bureaucracy, management might decide over the devs on what gets built. It's possible (hypothetically speaking - I've no association with NI) the devs want to spend more time learning and fixing code infrastructure, but the higher ups insist on new features because that's what 'will' get more sales. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Cormier Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 2 hours ago, antler said: To be fair, it's not always the devs' fault. People come and go along with management changes, and sometimes that means overall knowledge of the product decreases within the team. And in places with higher levels of bureaucracy, management might decide over the devs on what gets built. It's possible (hypothetically speaking - I've no association with NI) the devs want to spend more time learning and fixing code infrastructure, but the higher ups insist on new features because that's what 'will' get more sales. This is the perennial battle of revenue generation vs. technical debt. The latter provides cost savings over the long haul but potential reduction in short-term sales. Kicking the can down the road only makes it a messier bed for whoever owns/manages them in 3-5 years. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antler Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 2 hours ago, Marc Cormier said: This is the perennial battle of revenue generation vs. technical debt. The latter provides cost savings over the long haul but potential reduction in short-term sales. Kicking the can down the road only makes it a messier bed for whoever owns/manages them in 3-5 years. Thanks Marc - I know the battle all too well. I've been in the game for a while now, and I've known only one time where the entire team pushed back, and we went into 'maintenance mode' for a short while. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Wichrowski Posted September 5 Share Posted September 5 On 9/3/2024 at 3:57 PM, Patrick Wichrowski said: They just updated some protocols and Windows 7 users cannot log anymore in Native Access without using a proxy. https://vi-control.net/community/threads/native-access-please-come-home-na-login-issue-in-windows-7-solved.154058/post-5585201 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Maar Posted September 5 Share Posted September 5 I mentioned above that I have Steinberg and Waves on my "never again" list. I forgot to add two others, Slate and iZotope. I've purchased 2 iZotope products over the years. Both had problems being correctly scanned by a couple of plugin scanners. Sometimes they scanned, and sometimes not. Too unreliable. Uninstalled both. When I was first getting started with "in the box" recording and mixing, I bought some Slate plugins. They only supported licensing via the iLok dongle and not soft licensing to my PC. Sometimes my desktop got along OK with the dongle, other times not. When iLok cloud licensing came out, they updated those plugins to support the cloud, but didn't add machine licensing at the same time. Over about 10 years, they never once responded to any of my attempts to contact them. When I moved to France, I sold my desktop PC and bought a high-end Lenovo laptop. It has never once recognized the iLok dongle, so I can't even deauthorize the Slate plugins that are on it. As I also mentioned, I have a license for Komplete 9 that I've never upgraded. Successive releases just looked like bloatware to me. Komplete 15 seems no different. Hard pass. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Living Room Rocker Posted September 7 Share Posted September 7 Good morning everyone, Native Instruments KOMPLETE 15 pre-orders also available at Plugin Boutique: https://www.pluginboutique.com/meta_product/81-Bundles/97-Various-Category/13062-Native-Instruments-KOMPLETE-15?dm_i=6D39,12QH6,5ADZSS,4XEL1,1 Kind regards, Living Room Rocker 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwalpwal Posted September 7 Share Posted September 7 1 hour ago, Living Room Rocker said: Good morning everyone, Native Instruments KOMPLETE 15 pre-orders also available at Plugin Boutique: https://www.pluginboutique.com/meta_product/81-Bundles/97-Various-Category/13062-Native-Instruments-KOMPLETE-15?dm_i=6D39,12QH6,5ADZSS,4XEL1,1 Kind regards, Living Room Rocker are you getting commission from pb?? ffs stop with your spam 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Osterday Posted September 7 Share Posted September 7 (edited) 12 minutes ago, pwalpwal said: are you getting commission from pb?? ffs stop with your spam Not certain, but looks like an affiliate link to me. Pretty sure that's against the rules of the forum. I agree - posting every single sale at PB is getting out of hand. Edited September 7 by Pat Osterday 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User 905133 Posted September 7 Share Posted September 7 7 minutes ago, pwalpwal said: are you getting commission from pb?? ffs stop with your spam There are a few other third party vendors whose sales lists are also being linked via individual posts. JMO: It might be a test run for a denial of service style attack. It starts with new topics in the deals sub forum and then goes to other threads started by others when specific products are discussed by others. Might also be a faux turing thing--human pretending to be a bot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwalpwal Posted September 7 Share Posted September 7 4 minutes ago, Pat Osterday said: looks like an affiliate link to me me too, but i checked some of the others and didn't see it so more likely to be with email/user-sharing tracking 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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