'Measures' reset on mid-song tempo change possible

[Sven]

I navigate quickly through my songs with Ctrl-PgDn and Ctrl-PgUp as well as moving from marker to marker.  The problem arises when there's a tempo change or something odd  that moves from the original downbeat later on in the song.

I had this problem before and now I've got it again on a new song so I thought I'd see if there's a way to do what I want.  The song switches from 85 bpm to 80 bpm about a minute into the tune.  There's a downbeat and silence and a dramatic brass sting to signal the new tempo change to come.  Then when we hit the downbeat at the new tempo I've inserted I'd love to have my Ctrl-PgDn navigation work again. 

The problem is it's in a random spot time wise and no longer relates to the original starting point of the song and the 85 bpm tempo there.  I can put a marker on the downbeat to the new tempo section but I can't do my Ctrl-PgDn magic to quickly navigate that section of the song accurately.  I use that method to quickly find downbeats for the correct locations for cut/copy/paste operations.

And finally, when I go back to the original tempo I need everything to work again there.  But it may not line up exactly with the original song's measures.  If if this seems confusing or anyone needs more clarification on what I'm trying to do please let me know.  I know I could record the song in two workplaces and assemble it later but that's a drag.

Thanks.

[Glenn Stanton]

maybe put a marker on the spot? if it's important to find, then make it explicit.

[Max Arwood]

Did you change the temp at the marked spot? There is a temp track that might help. This should help you real light that area. Also set time at the marked position with cursor there. 

[msmcleod]

What you need is a tempo map that matches what you're playing.

What I'd do as a first try:

1. Set the first tempo to 85bpm

Assume the period between start of the silence and the 80bpm section is 2 measures of "n" bpm, and for arguments sake say it starts at measure 100

2. Set the now time to measure 99 and use "Set Measure Beat at Now", setting the measure to 99
3. Set the now time to measure 100 and use "Set Measure Beat at Now", setting the measure to 100

This is essentially reinforcing that the tempo is still 85bpm up until measure 100

4. Set the now time where it starts again at 80bpm, then use "Set Measure Beat at Now", setting the measure to 102

At this point, it should have added a tempo entry for "n" bpm that makes the gap between the silence and where it starts up again two measures long.

5. Add a 80bpm tempo change at measure 102 

What you'll end up with:

1. The first part of the song at 85bpm
2. The silence / intro to 80bpm part as two measures long (probably at a fairly small bpm)
3. The 80bpm starting again on the next measure.

[Sven]

Thanks for your help yet again msmcleod. 

  I think this is the key part of what you wrote:

 "Set Measure Beat at Now"

  I'm going to try using that and see if I can pull off what I'm trying to do.  Looks good so far.  It's kind of like I just want a measure 'reset' in the middle of the song at any point I chose.  At that 'reset'  point the new measure count begins.  The actual tempo should be irrelevant (I believe).  It's to make sure the Ctrl-PgDn strokes work correctly.

Thanks again.

 

 

 

[Sven]

Hi.  I might have posted too soon.  I tried to do what msmcleod suggested and I either misunderstood and did it incorrectly or it's not behaving how I would like.  I'm attaching  screen shots

 

:

 

 

The SLOW section starts at 19:02:00.   I tried to do what you suggested but I still see the Ctrl-PgDn and Ctrl-PgUp behavior going from 19:01 to 20:01 etc...  as usual instead of to 20:02:00 which is what I want to now consider one new (slow 80 bpm) measure.  

My new SLOW section could have been an even more random time like 19:14:45.  The point is I'm trying to create a magic new rule for Cakewalk saying this is where your new measure starts and I haven't quite succeeded.

Please let me know if this works for you or if I'm doing anything incorrectly.

Thanks.

 

 

 

[Glenn Stanton]

it's more for aligning clips than changing the timeline. likely you'd want to insert a meter change to accommodate or change the timing of the clip to be more aligned with the tempo / meter / measure positions.

http://legacy.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=CakewalkSonar&language=3&help=Tempo.14.html

failing that, my original statement of using a marker instead to explicitly declare the location would work even if the crtl-up/down doesn't deliver on odd positions outside of the measure/beat positioning.

[Sven]

Thanks Glenn,

  I'll try that.

 

[SteveC]

I also use Ctrl+PgUp and Ctrl+PgDn all the time - one of my favorite navigation shortcuts.  But it's designed to move the now time one measure at a time, not to other random points within a measure.  It looks like you need to use "Set Measure Beat at Now" so that 19:02 becomes 19:01, which means you'll probably need to adjust either the tempo or meter so that clips still fall at the right spot before and after.   Or...  could you change measure 18 to 5/4 so that 19:01 is pushed forward one quarter note and then change the meter back to 4/4 at the new 19:01?

[Sven]

Hi Glenn,

  For whatever reason Insert Meter in the lower have of the dialog box appears to be grayed out at the location I want to place it.  It seems to be available only on the current measure downbeats (18:, 19:, 20:) but not in between those times.

 

 

[msmcleod]

It looks like 80bpm is the correct tempo for the next section.

You should be able to add a meter/key key change at measure 20 of 1/4, then a meter/key change of 4/4 at measure 21.  Measure 20 then becomes one beat long, and the "WANT HERE" then starts on measure 21.

Alternatively,  add a meter/key change at measure 18 of 5/4, and the a meter/key change of  4/4 at measure 19 - in this case "WANT HERE" will start at measure 20.

[Sven]

Hi msmcleod,

  Your first suggestion seems to do the trick and seems simplest.  The 2nd method which was also mentioned by SteveC above gives me these messages:

 

Could be user error.

Thanks!

 

[msmcleod]

9 hours ago, Sven said:

Hi msmcleod,

  Your first suggestion seems to do the trick and seems simplest.  The 2nd method which was also mentioned by SteveC above gives me these messages:

 

Could be user error.

Thanks!

 

It was my error! I should have said go back to 4/4 at measure 20 !