MIDI recorded at 120 BPM in one CWP slows when imported into 2nd CWP.

[The_Idiot_Drummer]

Hi, 

This is a bit of Cakewalk Newbie question. I use 2 PCs to make music, one to create backing tracks (and do final mixing) and the other to record MIDI drums and vocals. The first is in an office, where the PC has many Toontrack products installed, the second is a separate studio room with e-drums and vocal processors etc. JFI - The 2nd PC is 'offline' - i.e. no internet. 

I made a bit of an error yesterday (well a few!) I created a backing track on PC1 with bass guitar lines and a click track. This was at 110 BPM and in numerous time signatures (6/4, 7/4, 3/4). I exported this as WAV and imported this into a new CWP on the second machine. 

Stupidly, the errors I made were:

• I did not set the file to over-writing (it is comping), and
• The tempo was the default 120 and in 4/4 time (the tempo part is the problem). 

On around the 5th run through I got my e-drum take almost perfect and now want to perfect it using the staff view and Piano Note view on the 1st PC, as well as removing a few bars as some ideas evolved when laying down vocal tracks. 

The problems I have are :

• How to save the original MIDI with only the last take (deleting the prev takes and saving the original file as MIDI0, importing the MIDI still pulls through all 5 takes in a single track, even though only 1 plays live on the machine it was recorded on). So it appears i haven't worked out how to 'flatten' the MIDI so all deleted tracks actually delete (Bounce to clip seems to re-insert the deleted takes), and 
• If i use File > Open for the MIDI file then copying the MIDI has an effect that the drum parts slowing down, as they shift from (an artifical) 120BPM to 110BPM. If i use Import MIDI then the same thing happens. 

In  future I'll probably export the audio backing track and re-import it into the same cakewalk file (on PC1), turn off all soft synths etc and then copy that cakewalk file to use in the studio (PC2). 

I'm keen to learn (and ideally keep my drum take in the example above) so is anyone aware of an easy way to save the final take (only) as a MIDI file that I can import into the original CWP in the real world time in which it was recorded (i.e. that wont slow down the MIDI)? Any help gratefully received! 

 

[Promidi]

Open the MIDI file instead of importing.  Open retains tempo, importing does not.

[The_Idiot_Drummer]

Thanks. I had read that this was mentioned. However, if I use File > Open from within the desired destination file then it simply opens the MIDI file as a CWP. Then either dragging the file, or Edit > Copy followed by Edit > Paste has the same problem - i.e. the MIDI is too slow. Is there another way of opening it, or are there rules - such as it wont work if other MIDI tracks are live within the destination file?

[The_Idiot_Drummer]

For clarity - the MIDI i recorded has a real world tempo of 110, however was recorded against a CWP with the default 120 BPM. When played back at 120 BPM (in the version it was recorded) it correctly plays at the speed of the backing track - i.e. 110BPM. But opening the MIDI and doing anything to the tempo does impact the speed of the recording. 

 

[Wookiee]

What happens @The_Idiot_Drummer if you set the tempo in the new project before bringing the MIDI in?

[The_Idiot_Drummer]

Thanks Wookie - just tested that. I've just started a new project, used File > Open and opened the MIDI CWP - so there are 2 CWPs open at the same time. 

Dragging the MIDI into the file with the correct tempo  reduces the speed down rather than keeping the same real time difference between the notes as recorded in the take.  The option to Edit > Copy and Edit > Paste is disabled, so I cannot test that (that's the only other approach I know in getting midi in without using Import).

The best I've got so far is drag in the MIDI, go to Process >Length and stretch the clip to 91%. This works ok from a perspective that a few bars now line up, however this isn't perfect as cakewalk doesn't have an option to stretch by a division of 2 tempos (e.g. 110/120BPM), and doesn't allow decimal places (I would need 91.6666667%). However i guess I could split the clip into e.g. 4 bar phrases and then quantize each - however it's far from ideal!!  

[SirWillyDS12]

If it is understood correctly you recorded your drum track at a tempo of 110 bpm over a project set to 120 bpm... You can use the Process > Fit Improvisation command to change the tempo, bpm of the project and grid, without changing the tempo of the recorded MIDI... The end result would be your same drum track at the correct speed in a project with the correct tempo of 110 bpm...

It can be tricky to use the Fit Improv command... When I use it I usually copy just a small section, maybe three measures to a new track and high light that as the "Source Track"... The very first note of the "Source Track" must be at the very beginning of the project 1:01:000...

[msmcleod]

14 hours ago, SirWillyDS12 said:

If it is understood correctly you recorded your drum track at a tempo of 110 bpm over a project set to 120 bpm... You can use the Process > Fit Improvisation command to change the tempo, bpm of the project and grid, without changing the tempo of the recorded MIDI... The end result would be your same drum track at the correct speed in a project with the correct tempo of 110 bpm...

It can be tricky to use the Fit Improv command... When I use it I usually copy just a small section, maybe three measures to a new track and high light that as the "Source Track"... The very first note of the "Source Track" must be at the very beginning of the project 1:01:000...

Using "Fit Improvisation" with real recorded material is always going to give unpredictable results.  It's designed to be used on a track with only quarter notes recorded, and at every quarter note - in other words, a track where you've "tapped along" to the beat. 

From the docs:

"To use this command, you must record a reference track containing a single clip that matches your original track or tracks but has only a single note on each beat boundary. You should make sure that the reference track has one event for every single beat, with no extra beats or missing beats. The first beat of the reference track should be at 1:01:000"