Question - Is Scaler 2 worth it for $35?

[husker]

? 

[Promidi]

Just now, husker said:

? 

Only you can answer that. 

The real question is it worth it to you.

Why not give the trial version a go and see?

[Doug Rintoul]

For me, Scaler 2 is worth it for $59, so yes it is worth it for $35.

[psionx]

It was on sale for $29 in June at PB. 

So probably it will be again.

I also used my virtual cash and got it cheaper. 

[Skijumptoes]

Depends if you need help with songwriting or coming up with ideas.  If it gives you one idea that's the basis of a good track, then it's well worth it surely?

If we're only to judge it on how capable the software is, it's really top drawer and certainly delivers what it promises.  There's a lot of very useful modes hidden inside, especially if your DAW allows you to route it's outgoing MIDI into another instrument track. (Most do)

Personally, the only time I use it is for coming up with chord progressions on a laptop where i've not got a full size keyboard with me.  And anything that sounds half decent I may send across to my main machine and start to flesh it out with proper instruments or take the idea further at a later date.

Edited July 23 by Skijumptoes

[dumbquestions]

I don’t usually wake up and think about starting my song in a b flat minor inverted mixolydian scale, but with scaler I can do this, and lock the keys of my midi keyboard to only play the keys & chords in that scale. For $35 i could also buy myself a sub par dinner, but I might never write that same song in a mixolydian scale on my own. Inspiration is what I use it for mostly

[PavlovsCat]

1 hour ago, dumbquestions said:

I don’t usually wake up and think about starting my song in a b flat minor inverted mixolydian scale, but with scaler I can do this, and lock the keys of my midi keyboard to only play the keys & chords in that scale. For $35 i could also buy myself a sub par dinner, but I might never write that same song in a mixolydian scale on my own. Inspiration is what I use it for mostly

This is what I don't understand, is the value that you were unfamiliar with the mixolydian scale before using Scaler?

Does it provide any value beyond that? To cut to the chase. I understand scales and modes, and basic music theory (I had around a year's worth of training). I know that for mixolydian, you just flatten the 7th of a major scale a half step (e.g, in C major, you lower the B a half step to Bb). Considering that, do you think Scaler 2 still has value -- for example,  it helps in some way with creative experimentation-- or is it mainly aimed at people without knowledge of music theory (e.g.,  showing user the notes in chords beyond triads, showing various scales and modes, etc)?

Edited July 23 by PavlovsCat

[bluzdog]

12 hours ago, husker said:

? 

Yes, Scaler 2 is awesome. I love me some theory, chord progressions, substitutions, etc. Scaler makes easy to try out ideas that I wouldn't have gravitated towards otherwise. I.e. moving from diatonic progressions in major or minor scales to lydian or phrygian to spice things up a bit.

[Wookiee]

@PavlovsCat the whole point of Scaler is for those who don't or can't be bothered to get some basic theory under their fingers.

Personally I have had it since version 1, I now have had 2 since it came out. Have I ever actually used it to create a track no, not one. Barely even spent any time trying. Will I get 3 when it inevitable gets released, it is 2.9 now, doubtfully.

If you want expand your musical range @husker and be more adventurous with your scales and or chord progressions, it will help. But and it is quite a big but it is tool, a tool with quite a steep learning curve. You will need to spend some considerable time learning it to get the best out of it.

[dumbquestions]

2 hours ago, PavlovsCat said:

This is what I don't understand, is the value that you were unfamiliar with the mixolydian scale before using Scaler?

Great questions. I will start by saying that [IMO] scaler definitely capitalizes on the lack of knowledge, and/or playing ability of the player, by offering an oversimplified solution to helping you lay down at the least a framework for your song (given your settings & preferences are all set to your liking, of course). There may be indeed some jacob collier type folks out there who can tell you what note is played naturally when they hear a raindrop hit the ground, then tell you what scale is played when multiple raindrops fall sequentially, then replicate it on a piano 5 seconds later. This is obviously an exaggeration, but that person probably doesn’t need scaler. I wish that was me, but I can hardly stay in tune while trying to sing the frozen theme song with my kids.

 For me personally, the value in scaler is not as much in the lack of knowledge as much as it is in the speed in which I can access different scales and chord structures, as I am laying out ideas for a song. For example, I may be scoring a video for a film that warrants some melancholic elements. I personally might default to minor scales and/or dissonant intervals, which obviously isn’t the only thing i can do in that scenario. In scaler I can type in the word “melancholy” for example and find if there are other scales that might work for that type of scene. It will give me a list of related scales which I can click and then play a few melodies, click another one & try a different melody, so on & so forth. It can even be set up to suggest your next chord live as you are playing. It’s a very fast workflow, but can be a little brainless over time if you do value practicing and getting better at quickly unlocking that music memory/education (right when you need it) that many of us worked very hard for. For me however, I prefer to just use both—scaler+education. Once I get the bones for a song laid out on piano i can start adding other instrumentation to flesh it out that i don’t really need scaler for. I have a day job that is not music related, so my hopeful & always up-and-coming career in music can use the slight boost in productivity that scaler provides, at least to help me keep moving forward.

[bluzdog]

10 minutes ago, dumbquestions said:

For me personally, the value in scaler is not as much in the lack of knowledge as much as it is in the speed in which I can access different scales and chord structures

This ^

[PavlovsCat]

1 hour ago, dumbquestions said:

Great questions. I will start by saying that [IMO] scaler definitely capitalizes on the lack of knowledge, and/or playing ability of the player, by offering an oversimplified solution to helping you lay down at the least a framework for your song (given your settings & preferences are all set to your liking, of course). There may be indeed some jacob collier type folks out there who can tell you what note is played naturally when they hear a raindrop hit the ground, then tell you what scale is played when multiple raindrops fall sequentially, then replicate it on a piano 5 seconds later. This is obviously an exaggeration, but that person probably doesn’t need scaler. I wish that was me, but I can hardly stay in tune while trying to sing the frozen theme song with my kids.

 For me personally, the value in scaler is not as much in the lack of knowledge as much as it is in the speed in which I can access different scales and chord structures, as I am laying out ideas for a song. For example, I may be scoring a video for a film that warrants some melancholic elements. I personally might default to minor scales and/or dissonant intervals, which obviously isn’t the only thing i can do in that scenario. In scaler I can type in the word “melancholy” for example and find if there are other scales that might work for that type of scene. It will give me a list of related scales which I can click and then play a few melodies, click another one & try a different melody, so on & so forth. It can even be set up to suggest your next chord live as you are playing. It’s a very fast workflow, but can be a little brainless over time if you do value practicing and getting better at quickly unlocking that music memory/education (right when you need it) that many of us worked very hard for. For me however, I prefer to just use both—scaler+education. Once I get the bones for a song laid out on piano i can start adding other instrumentation to flesh it out that i don’t really need scaler for. I have a day job that is not music related, so my hopeful & always up-and-coming career in music can use the slight boost in productivity that scaler provides, at least to help me keep moving forward.

I already gave your post a thanks,  but I thought you invested enough time and did such a thorough job of explaining the utility of the plugin that it warranted a thank you message.  I sincerely appreciate it. 

As always, Wookiee is as good as they come, and I want to thank you for your helpful post. 

Edited July 23 by PavlovsCat

[dumbquestions]

1 hour ago, PavlovsCat said:

I already gave your post a thanks,  but I thought you invested enough time and did such a thorough job of explaining the utility of the plugin that it warranted a thank you message.  I sincerely appreciate it. 

As always, Wookiee is as good as they come, and I want to thank you for your helpful post. 

Of course, happy to contribute since I have mostly just lurked over the last year. In my own personal workflow, I like to use this tool as one that stays (powered off) in the MIDI slot of my piano vst track, in my main production template. It helps that it’s always fired up as soon as I begin a project, but by default I don’t need to use it unless I want the help—which is when i’ll power it on with a single click, then hit my keyboard shortcut for opening it. The convenience of that alone is worth every cent though, imo. As it’s been said before though, to reemphasize there is definitely a slight time investment up front however, to learn & adjust settings based on how you anticipate using it. It’s really as complex or as simple as you make it. Had scaler over a year still unpacking features

Edited July 23 by dumbquestions

[dubdisciple]

Yes, if you bother to use it.  Even at the lowest commitment level, it will enable all but the most skilled keyboard players to play chords they would likely have not played otherwise. I can conceptualize playing an 11th chord, but it's not happening in practice.  Granted, the need for me to ever do so is rare.  It is a great tool for figuring modal interchange as well. In any case, I have spent more on things that were absolutely useless

[Nick Blanc]

I would say yes. But I seem to grow a bit tired of the standard chords and inversions. And my music doesn't really lend itself for an add9 into a major 7th in the 2nd tonic. So I use it for basic inspiration and tweak by hand from there. But it has many many many more functions.

[kitekrazy]

I practically majored theory in college.  I have these type of apps and I don't use them that much or my education.

I tend to buy loops with midi and use those to make adjustments.

BTW don't most DAWs have these built in?  

It wouldn't hurt to have it.

[dubdisciple]

53 minutes ago, Paul Young said:

I practically majored theory in college.  I have these type of apps and I don't use them that much or my education.

I tend to buy loops with midi and use those to make adjustments.

BTW don't most DAWs have these built in?  

It wouldn't hurt to have it.

Some have small subsets of what Scaler has. Ableton comes to mind.  I think a good free subset of scaler option is the free ripchord plugin.  I think more and more DAWs will eventually incorporate more of this, including AI options, since they are running out of features that can justify the upgrade and subscription prices.  The absolute ONLY reason i upgraded Studio one from 5 is my waves plugins broke during that foolish update they did when they tried to force subscription.

[telecode 101]

I don’t own  scalar.  But I have EZ Keys. And now FL studio released a built in chord progression tool for free in their DAW and I just refer to that mostly, which I feel rendered my investment in EZ Keys a waste.

[Brian Walton]

9 hours ago, Wookiee said:

@PavlovsCat the whole point of Scaler is for those who don't or can't be bothered to get some basic theory under their fingers.

Personally I have had it since version 1, I now have had 2 since it came out. Have I ever actually used it to create a track no, not one. Barely even spent any time trying. Will I get 3 when it inevitable gets released, it is 2.9 now, doubtfully.

If you want expand your musical range @husker and be more adventurous with your scales and or chord progressions, it will help. But and it is quite a big but it is tool, a tool with quite a steep learning curve. You will need to spend some considerable time learning it to get the best out of it.

I wouldn't say the "whole point" of the program is for those who even lack basic theory.  

If you watch some advanced videos on it can bring advanced chord substitutions and odd chords and voicings to people that have played music for decades but never went down those paths. 

I've played guitar for 3 decades and it gives me ideas I never would have thought of or used.  Some of that could be attributed to keyboard layouts but none the less still a valuable tool for a non beginner too.

[Doug Steinschneider]

HookTheory's HookPad web app is worth looking into. It will sync to a YouTube version of a song and show you the chords. It's also a composition tool.