CW crashes upon startup

[jkoseattle]

I won't go into the background here. CW crashes with no warning or errors, simply shuts down, upon startup. This is true as well if I hold down Shift when attempting to start it, which I thought was a Safe Mode option.

Assuming people are going to tell me it's corrupt and I should reinstall, what files can/should I save so that my settings, keyboard shortcuts, drive mappings, etc., can be restored after reinstall?

[Glenn Stanton]

your configuration files (assuming  the corruption didn't overwrite those) and presets etc (assuming you didn't overwrite stock presets, templates, etc) should remain intact with a new install. i routinely reinstall after a significant MS update and sometimes after an Edge update.

[jkoseattle]

Oh ok, that's good to know.

But I don't trust that will be the case, given how things have been going for me with this lately. When (sorry, if) my configuration files are lost upon reinstall, do you know which folders I should save off?

[Glenn Stanton]

you can rem out the cakewalk core and common files, and  the executable path and reinstall, then copy over the INI etc files, reload the settings. copy back presets etc. you can do a system point, and restore if you find the install did wipe out some of your specifics.

[jkoseattle]

Reinstalling did not solve the problem.

When I start CW, I see the blue message telling me it is scanning console emulator bus_64.dll. (Before the reinstall the message just told me it was scanning plugins.) OneSDrive pops up a message telling me it is downloading one of my .cwp files (the most recent one I had opened). A bout a minute later, it all shuts down. 

The new install did not change this issue.

I also tried starting it after temporarily renaming the VstPlugins folder. No change. 

Watching the Task Manager as I try to run it shows about 45 Mb of RAM being used, and the CPU usage down around 0.2%. Takes about two minutes every time. 

Not that this matters, but it feels good to type. I am at the final stages of a big orchestral suite I've been working on slavishly for four months, and is due in two weeks. My wife has booked a weekend out of town to give me this whole weekend for the final push. And now I can't even run CW.

Edited July 19 by jkoseattle

[jkoseattle]

I did manage to get CW to open a project finally, but it took a long time. The problem looks to be related to OneDrive, which infamously hijacks files on your computer without your knowledge, then when there are sync issues you're basically screwed. 

So what i'm doing now is downloading my entire project locally, then storing it on an external drive to work on. this means that everything will be now located in a different location. Fortunately everything was saved to a single folder (I think... I hope). Am I going to have any problems with opening big projects with a lot of audio as well as Midi and lots of frozen tracks and Melodyne doodads in there, once they are located in an enitrely different drive?

[JnTuneTech]

2 hours ago, jkoseattle said:

Am I going to have any problems with opening big projects with a lot of audio as well as Midi and lots of frozen tracks and Melodyne doodads in there, once they are located in an enitrely different drive?

-Basically, the project files can be located almost anywhere, and as long as the location has no access issues in general, it should work according to how well the particular computer access works for that location. -In other words, a reliable, fast drive should work fine, if not better than using the system drive.

Personally, I recommend saving projects to drives that have been set up specifically for the purpose. Things like assigned drive letters, and fully supported files systems for the type of files you want to use, are also as important as having a good performing device. -And as always, organizing the files into project folders is highly recommended, even just using the defaults for creating and saving new projects should get you that, but I wanted to make sure that is clear, just in case.

Everybody has their own preferences for saving and archiving projects, and related materials in an organized fashion, but again, in general, saving to a location other than the default is fully acceptable, even best in many cases, than the basic default. For instance, all of my primary project files are located and run from a secondary storage drive, and I have done that for many years, it works fine. -Also, I highly recommend not saving the primary - running projects to any folder that is also synced to OneDrive. -If you want the backup benefit that app offers, set up a system to copy backups from the "offline" primary location periodically as an alternative. -That would be my suggestion.

[jkoseattle]

Thank you for that. Exactly what I needed to know. So I've learned my lesson the hard way with OneDrive. What a piece of garbage. Of course, I didn't THINK I was saving my projects to OneDrive, it just decided I was, which anyone who has wrestled with it knows all too well. As soon as this project is done I'm going to spend the time it takes to completely dismantle my computer from it, which I understand is easier said than done. Anyway, thanks. finger crossed, here goes nothing....

Edited July 20 by jkoseattle

[msmcleod]

11 hours ago, jkoseattle said:

Thank you for that. Exactly what I needed to know. So I've learned my lesson the hard way with OneDrive. What a piece of garbage. Of course, I didn't THINK I was saving my projects to OneDrive, it just decided I was, which anyone who has wrestled with it knows all too well. As soon as this project is done I'm going to spend the time it takes to completely dismantle my computer from it, which I understand is easier said than done. Anyway, thanks. finger crossed, here goes nothing....

I had a bunch of issues with OneDrive - especially with multiple computers,  I'd change something on one machine and only to find it'd be overwritten by a change on another. And of course there's the issue you've been having where OneDrive is hijacking files while they're in use.

You've got two choices - either:

1.  Disable OneDrive completely
2.  Configure the directories you want OneDrive to backup so that it's not including your Cakewalk ones:  https://support.microsoft.com/en-gb/office/choose-which-onedrive-folders-to-sync-to-your-computer-98b8b011-8b94-419b-aa95-a14ff2415e85

There's a third option, which I use with Mega, but it'll work with OneDrive too...  I've got a batch file that copies my projects from my Cakewalk Projects folder to a backup folder, and it's the backup folder that gets sync'd to the cloud. 

[jkoseattle]

Oh that last idea is a good one, never thought of that. My .bat skills might come in handy again after decades... Wait-- there must be a fancier way to make batch files than I used to know.

[jkoseattle]

I've discovered that CW crashes upon startup every time, but if instead of clicking on the CW icon in the Taskbar, I click on a cwp file in File Explorer, that the project opens (--- for a while, until it crashes again). Is this a clue for anyone?

[JnTuneTech]

17 hours ago, jkoseattle said:

Of course, I didn't THINK I was saving my projects to OneDrive, it just decided I was, which anyone who has wrestled with it knows all too well. As soon as this project is done I'm going to spend the time it takes to completely dismantle my computer from it

As far as OneDrive troubleshooting goes, the 1st simplest method is to disable OneDrive in the Apps - Startup list in Windows, then reboot. -This would for instance let you see if that app is causing the crashes, but without "dismantling" it entirely. -Now, I personally do not run OneDrive on my DAW PC, but in theory if it was set up properly, other than the hit from system resource usage you can't avoid, there may be a way to allow it to run without conflicts, and perhaps you may need that if you are backing up other important data to your cloud storage. But following someone like @msmcleod 's advice (and search these forums for his backup scripts) may get you better results.

As often repeated in these forums, optimizing your computer for running a DAW is highly recommended if you really expect reliable performance. Otherwise, I find that most modern off-the-shelf PCs are so full of (unnecessary) junk from the OEM to begin with, that cleanup is almost mandatory, -especially if you begin having DAW performance problems like you have described here in your original post. At the very least, temporarily turn off any unnecessary apps and services while you troubleshoot. That does take some work, however!

[Promidi]

Soon as I heard of potential issues with Onedrive, I banished it from my PC.

I also backup certain Cakewalk registry entries using a batch file that gets run daily.  That way I have a granular backup of of various Cakewalk settings.

My regular backup also includes other Cakewalk specific setup files.  This backup includes all files located in folders listed in the following reg keys . 

Note: This is for CbB.  Other Cakewalk versions will be in different locations.  If you know your way around the registry, these locations in the registry should be easy to extrapolate using those below.

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Cakewalk Music Software\Cakewalk\Core\ContentLocations
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\SOFTWARE\Cakewalk Music Software\Cakewalk\Core\UserPaths

Edited July 20 by Promidi

[Xoo]

14 minutes ago, pwal³ said:

Powershell ?

That's just cruel.

[msmcleod]

20 hours ago, jkoseattle said:

Oh that last idea is a good one, never thought of that. My .bat skills might come in handy again after decades... Wait-- there must be a fancier way to make batch files than I used to know.

This is a variation on what I use for my "upload to cloud" script:

ROBOCOPY "C:\Cakewalk Projects" "D:\Backup\Cakewalk Projects" *.* /XO /E /COPYALL /DCOPY:DAT 
ROBOCOPY "C:\Cakewalk Content\Cakewalk Core" "D:\Backup\Cakewalk Content\Cakewalk Core" *.* /XO /E /COPYALL /DCOPY:DAT 
ROBOCOPY "C:\Cakewalk Content\Audio Library" "D:\Backup\Cakewalk Content\Audio Library" *.* /XO /E /COPYALL /DCOPY:DAT 
ROBOCOPY "C:\Cakewalk Content\Picture Cache" "D:\Backup\Cakewalk Content\Picture Cache" *.* /XO /E /COPYALL /DCOPY:DAT

This is the "download from cloud" script:

ROBOCOPY "D:\Backup\Cakewalk Projects" "C:\Cakewalk Projects" *.* /XO /E /COPYALL /DCOPY:DAT 
ROBOCOPY "D:\Backup\Cakewalk Content\Cakewalk Core" "C:\Cakewalk Content\Cakewalk Core" *.* /XO /E /COPYALL /DCOPY:DAT 
ROBOCOPY "D:\Backup\Cakewalk Content\Audio Library" "C:\Cakewalk Content\Audio Library" *.* /XO /E /COPYALL /DCOPY:DAT 
ROBOCOPY "D:\Backup\Cakewalk Content\Picture Cache" "C:\Cakewalk Content\Picture Cache" *.* /XO /E /COPYALL /DCOPY:DAT

... and you set OneDrive (or whatever cloud sync app you use) to sync D:\Backup

A quick explanation of the flags:

/XO  - exclude older files... i.e. skip anything that is newer or the same in the destination
/E  - include empty folders to ensure the folder hierarchy is preserved
/COPYALL  and  /DCOPY:DAT - copy all the file attributes, e.g. date created, date modified, file owner etc..  you'll need this for /XO to work properly
 

[jkoseattle]

After sending a crash dump to CW Support, they asked me to try starting it with the audio interface unplugged, and that worked. I switched driver mode to WASAPI Shared and opened a project but it would not play, the shuttle sitting frozen. Switched back to ASIO and CW still opens normally, but now I am getting Dropouts immediately though only half a dozen tracks are involved AND FX are disabled. For which I am starting a new thread.

[Bill Phillips]

I use OD without issues but not for active Cakewalk project files. I also disabled OD backup of the Documents folder to protect plugin configuration files.

Disabling OD backup of the Documents folder is a little tricky because OD really really wants to backup the Documents folder.

I don't use Documents folder at all and I don't use a My Documents folder either because earlier MS versions used My Documents instead of Documents as the default documents folder and, in my case, OD has decided to backup that folder. My documents folder name is bills_docs.

As stated above, many plugins use the Documents folder to store configuration variables. I have a lot of plugins so I have a large Documents folder.

Cakewalk may also store some configuration variables in the Documents folder. I'm not able to check now. 

If OD was accessing and backing up the plugin and DAW files that live in the Documents folder, it could (and probably would) cause pops, clicks, dropouts,  audio engine stops, and crashes. 

Edited July 28 by Bill Phillips