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Larry Shelby

By Larry Shelby
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GTsongwriter

GTsongwriter

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Don't get me wrong, I do love Smart: Limiter and Smart:EQ 3, but Smart Comp 2 falls short of happy.

Smart Comp 2 is just too transparent for my tastes.  If I want that kind of compression, I could just use Smart Limiter and be done OR better yet, use volume envelopes in any DAW.  

I was really hoping for some magic with Smart Comp 2, but it didn't produce any magic on any of my songs and tracks.  I tried various ones I was already using compression and replaced those with Smart Comp 2.  No magic.  Oh well. 

If you buy anything... Smart Limiter and Smart EQ 3 I highly recommend. 

(Smart EQ 4 is still buggy and will crash your PC if your PC is outdated like mine from Intel generation 6).  They won't fix the issue because of how outdated my system is. I've already contacted them about it.

 

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alacantec

alacantec

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Thanks for your recommendations. Currently @audioplugin JULY4 code (+ rewards) gets you Smart Limiter for $39,2.  Also Smart EQ 3 for $39,2

Edited by alacantec
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Joakim

Joakim

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4 hours ago, El Diablo said:

Don't get me wrong, I do love Smart: Limiter and Smart:EQ 3, but Smart Comp 2 falls short of happy.

Smart Comp 2 is just too transparent for my tastes.  If I want that kind of compression, I could just use Smart Limiter and be done OR better yet, use volume envelopes in any DAW.  

I was really hoping for some magic with Smart Comp 2, but it didn't produce any magic on any of my songs and tracks.  I tried various ones I was already using compression and replaced those with Smart Comp 2.  No magic.  Oh well. 

If you buy anything... Smart Limiter and Smart EQ 3 I highly recommend. 

(Smart EQ 4 is still buggy and will crash your PC if your PC is outdated like mine from Intel generation 6).  They won't fix the issue because of how outdated my system is. I've already contacted them about it.

 

My primary use case is using it with a side chain in spectral mode, for instance to carve out space for vocals. It’s also very tweakable and if you open the advanced mode you can pretty much make it sound like any other compressor, and you can play with the styles if you don’t want to deep dive manually. The last thing I really like is the visual feedback. I’m not saying it’s for you, but just wanted to share a different view if someone is considering it.

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GTsongwriter

GTsongwriter

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2 hours ago, Joakim said:

My primary use case is using it with a side chain in spectral mode, for instance to carve out space for vocals. It’s also very tweakable and if you open the advanced mode you can pretty much make it sound like any other compressor, and you can play with the styles if you don’t want to deep dive manually. The last thing I really like is the visual feedback. I’m not saying it’s for you, but just wanted to share a different view if someone is considering it.

For "ducking vocals or instruments" I use FUSER by Mastering the Mix.  It can transparently blend two tracks together using side chain AND it can auto detect the correct phase too!  It's the only plugin I've found that can do this without you noticing that your "ducking" it, because FUSER does it on a frequency spectrum level.  You should try out a demo for yourself :)

I bought the FUSER and RESO combo when they was both on sale.

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Carl Ewing

Carl Ewing

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, El Diablo said:

use volume envelopes in any DAW. 

 

Say what now?? Lol. I mean, I could manually create delay effects by cutting and pasting audio clips...but c'mon now, son.

Also - automating volume envelopes is not compression. I shouldn't have to explain this here!

Edited by Carl Ewing
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GTsongwriter

GTsongwriter

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On 7/6/2024 at 9:40 PM, Carl Ewing said:

Say what now?? Lol. I mean, I could manually create delay effects by cutting and pasting audio clips...but c'mon now, son.

Also - automating volume envelopes is not compression. I shouldn't have to explain this here!

Compression involves dynamically increasing or decreasing the volume of an audio signal within each sample and this can be done using envelopes.  Now, if someone doesn't want to do that and let a plugin do it for them.... Well that's another story.

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GTsongwriter

GTsongwriter

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Here's how compression works in a plugin:

Threshold: You set a threshold level. Any audio signal above this level will be compressed (reduced in volume), while signals below it remain unaffected.

Ratio: The ratio determines how much the signal is reduced. For example, a 4:1 ratio means that for every 4 dB above the threshold, the output will only increase by 1 dB.

Attack and Release: These settings control how quickly the compressor responds to changes in the audio signal. Attack is the time it takes for the compressor to start reducing the gain after the signal exceeds the threshold. Release is the time it takes for the compressor to stop reducing the gain after the signal falls below the threshold.

Make-up Gain: After compression, the overall signal might be quieter. Make-up gain is used to bring the compressed signal back up to a desired level.

 

Overall it's the manipulation of the volume of the signal... So you CAN do this with envelopes.

You've seen Vocal Rider for Waves Audio... It's basically doing compression.  You can do this to using envelopes or a midi with a knob.

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Carl Ewing

Carl Ewing

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8 hours ago, El Diablo said:

You've seen Vocal Rider for Waves Audio... It's basically doing compression.  

No it's not. Actually - vocal rider isn't technically doing compression or volume automation. It's doing many many things under the hood that cannot be done with either. There have been endless requests for Waves to make the algorithm public - to understand what it's actually doing - but they have never done so. 

Also - do you really not understand the different between volume and dynamic range? For example, when you put a compressor on a drum kit, do you not understand the difference between reducing peaks above a certain threshold and reducing the volume of peaks using volume automation (i.e. reducing the entire signal)? These are 2 entirely different things. I'm not sure you understand the difference. ?? 

Edited by Carl Ewing
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pseudopop

pseudopop

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1 hour ago, Carl Ewing said:

Also - do you really not understand the different between volume and dynamic range? For example, when you put a compressor on a drum kit, do you not understand the difference between reducing peaks above a certain threshold and reducing the volume of peaks using volume automation (i.e. reducing the entire signal)? These are 2 entirely different things. I'm not sure you understand the difference. ?? 

When talking about the end result, I'm not sure I understand the difference either.

If you use a completely transparent compressor, one that doesn't add any character, what does it actually do besides lowering the volume of the peaks that are above a certain threshold? Why can't you, in theory, do that with volume automation?

It's not like your average compressor recognizes the different instruments in the drum kit and only lowers the volume of the snare, right?

I have always thought that you can precisely replicate the compressing functionality of a compressor with volume automation. It just happens to be so labor-intensive and mind-numbingly boring that no one in their right mind would use volume automation in favor of a compressor plugin. Plus, people often want the color of a specific compressor.

Of course, things like spectral compressors and other advanced compressors are a completely different thing.

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Carl Ewing

Carl Ewing

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1 hour ago, pseudopop said:

When talking about the end result, I'm not sure I understand the difference either.

If you use a completely transparent compressor, one that doesn't add any character, what does it actually do besides lowering the volume of the peaks that are above a certain threshold? Why can't you, in theory, do that with volume automation?

It's not like your average compressor recognizes the different instruments in the drum kit and only lowers the volume of the snare, right?

I have always thought that you can precisely replicate the compressing functionality of a compressor with volume automation. It just happens to be so labor-intensive and mind-numbingly boring that no one in their right mind would use volume automation in favor of a compressor plugin. Plus, people often want the color of a specific compressor.

Of course, things like spectral compressors and other advanced compressors are a completely different thing.

Because volume automation is just reducing peaks. It cannot simultaneously increase the lower level content at the same time. Well, technically you could do this by first automating the peak volume and then have secondary automation (serially) that mirrors the first with gain compensation. However, this is going to be ungodly amounts of automation, because it's not just a matter of mirroring the attack / release / ratio, etc. Because peaks are generally frequency dependent, so the automation used to bring the peak down may not be the same required to gain compensate the result after peak reduction. (Something compressors are very efficient at doing. And in the case of an optical compressor (example: LA-3A), they will adjust attack / release / ratio constantly depending on frequency content, since it is a photocell - or is mimicing one digitally. It would likely be impossible to mimic the behavior of most analog compressors without having both frequency control and multiple lines of automation that are reacting to the material in a consistent way. This would have to be done with software. 

So - theoretically I'll give this one to El Diablo. You could theoretically do this with multiple lines of automation. I assume it would take days for a single track.  (Perhaps easier with a simple vocal performance.) I would be very curious to hear the result and if such a process actually sounds like a compressor - or can give the desired result - which I doubt it will. I am 100% not willing to try this myself, although now I'm very curious to hear what it would sound like.

EDIT: Okay - i just spent 10 minutes trying this on a vocal line that's about 10 seconds long. It does not sound the same - and it's probably more apparent on vocals (which have less transients than percussive material.) The thing about compressors, is that downward push + gain compensation is constantly adjusting - modulating infinite times a second. The math in a plugin, or physics from a photocell in an optical compressor, are complex, and I'm thinking this would be virtually impossible to mimic manually, even though I'm trying. That infinite interaction of variables is what gives compressors that grainy sound (even transparent ones...I'm comparing with Pro-C 2 so I can easily see & copy the data) - and  it radically alters the texture of the voice, even when not much is going on transient wise. Using 2 lines of automation, mimicing what Pro-C 2 is doing as close as I can get (including drawing attack / release lines and matching ratio), it sounds...nothing like a compressor. It's too clean and has zero character. This might be desirable in some cases - it's actually an interesting experiment. But I would only use this in really specific circumstances, and there's no way I would call the same as compression. They sound nothing alike. This also could be a matter of practice and learning exactly how to mimic the behavior. But trying it for 10 minutes, I'm not sure why anyone would do this lol.

Edited by Carl Ewing
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GTsongwriter

GTsongwriter

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8 hours ago, Carl Ewing said:

No it's not. Actually - vocal rider isn't technically doing compression or volume automation. It's doing many many things under the hood that cannot be done with either. There have been endless requests for Waves to make the algorithm public - to understand what it's actually doing - but they have never done so. 

Also - do you really not understand the different between volume and dynamic range? For example, when you put a compressor on a drum kit, do you not understand the difference between reducing peaks above a certain threshold and reducing the volume of peaks using volume automation (i.e. reducing the entire signal)? These are 2 entirely different things. I'm not sure you understand the difference. ?? 

Would love to see the mathematical difference.

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kricho

kricho

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22 minutes ago, JT3Jon said:

Is this probably the best price one can expect for Deess? 

I don't remember if they offered a voucher before. Anyway, if you combine sale with loyal discout and voucher I think it is the best deal for any Sonible plugin.

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JT3Jon

JT3Jon

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38 minutes ago, El Diablo said:

That reminds me.. I still need to test this against melodyne studio.

Would love to hear your thoughts between the two!

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