Sonar - have I missed the plot?

[Peter Morgan]

Lifelong user of Cakewalk through ProAudio to Sonar to CbB and anxiously awaiting the return of rebranded Sonar...   

 

I downloaded the preview/demo and ...  after a year in development, it seems indistinguishable from Cakewalk by Bandlab.  Same apparent engine, settings, UI, feature set.  Maybe a few small tweaks but I expected something fairly revolutionary.  Not getting it...   did I miss something major?   I'm not trying to be provocative or negative, but I am honestly looking for what has changed that would make me want to buy the new Sonar product?   So far it seems like it's 99% the same, and I'm not sure that makes me want to plunk down for it, instead of moving over to some other paid product at this point.

If it is going to become a paid product, it has to compete on even footing with what else is out there, and I was expecting some major overhauls of features or usability / workflow, or UI or ....  something.

I want to stick with the DAW I have used for many decades by now, but I think I need a little convincing from those who have spent more time with the new version that it's really moving forward in some ways that I haven't appreciated before I'd be willing to invest into this path going forward.

Can someone please help me understand what's happening?   I'll admit I haven't had much time to keep up with the ins and outs, so I am hopeful there is a lot there I've simply missed.

 

Best regards,

peter

[Greg Wynn]

I’ve been onboard for the same timeline you posted and I’m confused as well.

I paid for a yearly membership and ported over all my CbB workloads to the new Sonar months ago with mostly  zero issues (I did post a strange one that no one has replied to yet just today).

But the lack of news or even an apparent marketing plan is troubling…

[bitman]

I'm 62, find myself now on a meager income, have really nothing to amuse myself with but the songs I have on my daw that I mix and remix for entertainment any more. CbB is way more DAW than I'll ever need and there is little left to do aside from a talent button.

I wish I could just use it until I'm too old to do so.

 

[John Vere]

Sonar is  the next update from CbB but with a graphic overhaul and long list of bug fixes and a few things added at this point. There will be more forthcoming in the future.
We are sort of just picking up from where we left off in 2017.  CbB was free while they sorted out all the bugs and figured out what they could do to create a DAW that would appeal to the masses. This is still yet to be seen.  
Personally after trying almost every other DAW I still need to use Sonar because of a few features none of the others have. Tempo extract and a smart tool are just 2 out of many others. 

Edited May 6 by John Vere

[Terry Kelley]

It has become a paid product. That’s already happened.

I feel Sonar’s biggest contribution is the new UI that supports high resolution displays. While I prefer the CbB look, I’m sure I’d appreciate the new UI when I move above a pair of 2k monitors. 

Yes there are bug fixes and some new features but the UI is the big change for me.

[Craig Anderton]

48 minutes ago, Terry Kelley said:

I feel Sonar’s biggest contribution is the new UI that supports high resolution displays.

I don't know how to code, but it seems it would be quite a task to redo the UI to make it scalable. It's something Cakewalk had to do to remain relevant in the increasingly prevalent world of hi-res monitors.

Remember all those posts back in the day of "we don't want new features, just fix the darn bugs!" 

[Michael Vogel]

Not too long ago I watched one of Mike Enjo’s videos on his Creative Sauce YouTube  channel and his new channel, Cakewalk Revealed and was very surprised by the number of enhancements between the last CbB version and new Sonar.

Might be worth checking out Mike’s videos.

https://youtu.be/_pSYI2hb83E?si=1l_B92j0Qp0937Zv.

 

[Brian Walton]

On 5/6/2024 at 1:02 PM, Craig Anderton said:

 

Remember all those posts back in the day of "we don't want new features, just fix the darn bugs!" 

Yes, but the UI wasn't a bug (my Theme looks better to me than the new UI) - and we were also lifetimers not needing to pay extra for the updates.    

 

Newest version does have some new features, but honestly I'm shocked that something like Chord Track, Composer, Scaler type of functionality hasn't seen the light yet after over a year wait since the last update.  The vast majority of users do no have 4K+ monitors, and even some that do run software at 1080P instead.  While I agree that long term it makes sense for the future, it is also asking the user base to pay for something they don't need.

Hopefully the pricing model makes it no-brainer territory.  

[GreenLight]

2 hours ago, Brian Walton said:

The vast majority of users do no have 4K+ monitors, and even some that do run software at 1080P instead.  While I agree that long term it makes sense for the future, it is also asking the user base to pay for something they don't need.

 

Hopefully the pricing model makes it no-brainer territory.  

I just wanted to add that you don't need a fancy "4K+ monitor" to benefit from a vector-based GUI. As soon as you have any resolution + view distance combo that makes you want to change the scaling from 100% in Windows, then you will benefit from a crisper look with a vector-based GUI.

In fact, I would estimate that scaling has been one of the most commonly added (and requested) features in VST plugins in general for the past several years. And complaints are often heard where it doesn't exist, including for Cakewalk. Yours truly has certainly been guilty of that, at least once (when I bought my BenQ 2560x1440 (2K) monitor a couple of years ago)... ?

By the way, are there any threads where we can follow the new Sonar development and/or beta versions?

[Terry Kelley]

There really isn't a fixed thread per se. It's pretty much scattered here. I guess someone could start one.

[Brian Walton]

4 hours ago, GreenLight said:

I just wanted to add that you don't need a fancy "4K+ monitor" to benefit from a vector-based GUI. As soon as you have any resolution + view distance combo that makes you want to change the scaling from 100% in Windows, then you will benefit from a crisper look with a vector-based GUI.

In fact, I would estimate that scaling has been one of the most commonly added (and requested) features in VST plugins in general for the past several years. And complaints are often heard where it doesn't exist, including for Cakewalk. Yours truly has certainly been guilty of that, at least once (when I bought my BenQ 2560x1440 (2K) monitor a couple of years ago)... ?

By the way, are there any threads where we can follow the new Sonar development and/or beta versions?

Yes, I work with photography and design at a professional level, so I work with resolution more than the average user.

But the DAW itself is going to be full screen almost all the time for most users.  Plugins on the other hand do get scaled around a ton, and the problem with them is that many are simply designed to small for 1080 to begin with and then don't even have a scaling option.  

Yes, there is a hidden beta forum here but you have to be on the beta team to see it...not sure if they are still accepting participants now that the bandlab subscription gets you access to a preview version...not sure if they have access to that sub forum either.

[John Vere]

Ya this will become exclusively the Sonar forum eventually. The old forum had to be abandoned because  it belongs to Gibson. 
This forum belongs to Bandlab. 

Someone will have to eventually redo some of the categories and descriptions to update to it all saying Sonar. 
Hopefully they get rid of the questions and answers sub forum which is only a duplicate of this one with an annoying lack of seeing who and when it was last posted to. 

[Will.]

Unlike every other top DAW company, we have a very-very small team trying their best to give us a top performance DAW. Let's all give a hand in gratitude for what has been done since the new team took over. I'm sure there are plenty of features yet to come, but it requires some patience to see this new world to arrive. Let's all keep the team's spirit high.  

Edited May 10 by Will.

[Green Needle]

On 5/5/2024 at 6:42 PM, John Vere said:

Sonar is  the next update from CbB but with a graphic overhaul and long list of bug fixes and a few things added at this point. There will be more forthcoming in the future.
We are sort of just picking up from where we left off in 2017.  CbB was free while they sorted out all the bugs and figured out what they could do to create a DAW that would appeal to the masses. This is still yet to be seen.  
Personally after trying almost every other DAW I still need to use Sonar because of a few features none of the others have. Tempo extract and a smart tool are just 2 out of many others. 

Are the graphics better? Is the buggy crossfade problem fixed? 

[Mr No Name]

So Is this new DAW called Sonar by Bandlab then ?  SbB

[InstrEd]

6 minutes ago, Mr No Name said:

So Is this new DAW called Sonar by Bandlab then ?  SbB

SbC a subsidiary of Bandlab  ?

[msmcleod]

5 hours ago, Green Needle said:

Are the graphics better? Is the buggy crossfade problem fixed? 

If you mean this bug: "Moving Comp Split Point in Multi-Tempo Project Alters Next Segment's Start Time.".... then yes, it is fixed.

[Green Needle]

11 minutes ago, msmcleod said:

If you mean this bug: "Moving Comp Split Point in Multi-Tempo Project Alters Next Segment's Start Time.".... then yes, it is fixed.

No i mean the one where if you have cross fades 'on' in a big project the fade lines do not fade symmetrically clip to clip, one will go more or less than the other and often if you grad a clip and slide it into another hoping to cross fade them, on the right one, the fade 'right to left' will go to some weird unknown spot way down the line.  Totally unpredictable and buggy stuff.

Also can you speed the hell up out of the auto save?

 

 

[GreenLight]

On 5/10/2024 at 4:51 AM, Brian Walton said:

Yes, I work with photography and design at a professional level, so I work with resolution more than the average user.

But the DAW itself is going to be full screen almost all the time for most users.  Plugins on the other hand do get scaled around a ton, and the problem with them is that many are simply designed to small for 1080 to begin with and then don't even have a scaling option. 

Cool that you're a photography & design pro! ??

But even if the DAW is full-screen, it will be blurry if the GUI isn't vector-based and if you have Windows scaling set to something else than 100%.

Ableton Live has a really cool GUI-scaling option, where you can seamlessly zoom in/out on the entire GUI. It is very convenient, so even if you DO run at 100% scaling, it's useful to be able to set the GUI to be exactly the size you prefer and it's all crisp! Msmcleod hinted that the new Sonar will have a similar setting. ??

Edited May 12 by GreenLight
Clarified zoom in/out feature benefit :)

[Billy86]

On 5/5/2024 at 6:42 PM, John Vere said:

Sonar is  the next update from CbB but with a graphic overhaul and long list of bug fixes and a few things added at this point. There will be more forthcoming in the future.
We are sort of just picking up from where we left off in 2017.  CbB was free while they sorted out all the bugs and figured out what they could do to create a DAW that would appeal to the masses. This is still yet to be seen.  
Personally after trying almost every other DAW I still need to use Sonar because of a few features none of the others have. Tempo extract and a smart tool are just 2 out of many others. 

Hey John. Just to let you know, I’ve been toying with Studio One while Cakewalk/CbB/Sonar lets us know what’s happening. S1 has both features you mention.