Jim Fogle Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 The +++ Sterling Harmony H224 Audio Interface +++ driver executable loads a audio interface control panel, WDM driver and ASIO driver for use in Windows 10 and 11 operating systems. Can anyone explain to me why the developer includes a WDM driver in addition to an ASIO driver? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Stanton Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 backwards compatibilty. possibly a worse reason - they use the WDM/KS with an ASIO overlay (sort of like ASIO4ALL does using MME) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Fogle Posted April 1 Author Share Posted April 1 (edited) Glenn, do you mean backwards compatibility with older software programs that perhaps don't offer ASIO or WASPI compatibility? So your thinking the ASIO driver is likely a wrapper? If so, is there a way for someone to know? I have a utility programming that exposes the individual files in an executable file. I downloaded the Sterling Windows driver package and saw there are 32 and 64 bit WDM & ASIO drivers. The WDM files are about 82K in size while the ASIO files are about 304K. Does that tell of anything? Edited April 1 by Jim Fogle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Stanton Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 it's possible that people still run their software on older systems. not sure if it's a wrapper or not, usually the ASIO driver will have a lot less latency than the WDM. of course, reaching out to their support folks could answer it more directly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Stanton Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 thanks. i guess they upgraded to WDM. dunno. i only use ASIO4ALL when i need to handle some VI which only operate on even boundary buffer settings and cannot change it in my usual ASIO or WASAPI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Stanton Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 thanks! i have no issues with ASIO4ALL. i've had it installed for years and never had a problem with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Fogle Posted April 1 Author Share Posted April 1 Great conversation about ASIO4ALL. I can attest it works better than my onboard computer's ASIO driver. I've reached out to Sterling's e-mail support and will update when I receive a response from them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Roseberry Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 (edited) If your audio interface doesn't provide/expose a WDM audio port/s, you won't be able to hear Windows Sounds (YouTube, WebAudio, etc) thru your audio interface. The solution is to use something like Vincent Burrel's "Voice Meeter" (provides/exposes a WDM port to Windows - routes to your audio interface using an ASIO port): https://voicemeeter.com/ Voice Meeter is essentially the reverse of ASIO4ALL. I use an Antelope Orion Studio Synergy Core audio interface. Has nearly every feature one could want... except... it doesn't provide/expose a WDM port for Windows Sounds. Voice Meeter is an easy work-around. If you have something like a keyboard, guitar processer, etc that also acts as an audio interface... these often provide/expose a WDM port to Windows. ie: I use a Yamaha Montage M8x keyboard... which does exactly this. If you're achieving better audio performance using ASIO4ALL (vs the audio interface's stock ASIO driver), it's almost surely because of extra buffering in ASIO4ALL. Extra buffers can help if the machine is pushing performance limits... but it comes at the expense of higher latency. It's essentially no different than raising the buffer size of the stock ASIO driver. The best solution for a DAW has always been (and always will be) an audio interface with a rock-solid ASIO driver. You'll never achieve better low-latency performance with ASIO4ALL. Edited April 2 by Jim Roseberry 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starship Krupa Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 On 4/2/2024 at 6:51 AM, pwal³ said: asio4all will give decent performance for onboard realtek, super handy for laptops and/or cheapskates IME, ASIOALL does no better than the officially Microsoft and Cakewalk supported WASAPI Exclusive with the Realtek hardware CODEC. YMMV. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Stanton Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 11 hours ago, Starship Krupa said: IME, ASIOALL does no better than the officially Microsoft and Cakewalk supported WASAPI Exclusive with the Realtek hardware CODEC. YMMV. agreed - exception - i use it only to handle synths that break or otherwise refuse to operate on non-even buffer sizes... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starship Krupa Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 3 hours ago, Glenn Stanton said: agreed - exception - i use it only to handle synths that break or otherwise refuse to operate on non-even buffer sizes... If I encountered such a plug-in, I would probably decide that it wasn't my interface driver that needed to be replaced....? But then, I'm not much for "no other XXXX does what this one can do" when it comes to plug-ins. I have hundreds of the damn things. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Stanton Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 agreed. but a couple of them i use and they're excellent virtual representations of older synths that even a few of my other paid products cannot quite get "the sound". anyways, it's a non-issue for me either way... ? it's there, it behaves well, so i leave it. the realtek stuff otoh... oo la la... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Stanton Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 1 hour ago, pwal³ said: Why are you using non-even buffer sizes? not me ? the WASAPI shared and exclusive modes sometimes return non-even buffers (e.g . 441 samples) when using their returned scan values, (e.g. they're not on divisible by 8 boundaries) so i need a way to adjust to an even value so the ***** hard-coding of a synth can operate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vere Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 Most good interfaces not only have an ASIO driver but they will need a Windows driver for playback from apps that can’t use ASIO. Another situation is when you want to use 2 or more different interfaces together to add more inputs to record a live band. You can’t use ASIO so you switch Cakewalk to WASAPI or WDM mode and now both interfaces can be chosen as inputs. In my collection of 6 interfaces not all of them support WASAPI because they are old. Then my brand new ones don’t support WDM mode. Only ASIO and WASAPI. The deal is it really doesn’t matter for live recording or editing but only ASIO reports the latency to your DAW so it can adjust the offset. Look in sync and caching in ASIO mode and note that it says use reported latency. Now switch to WASAPI or WDM and look. There’s nothing there. It’s guessing. All overdubs will be probably out of sync. ASIO is all about communicating system latency and fixing it for you. I’ve never managed to test if ASIO 4all behaves this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Fogle Posted April 14 Author Share Posted April 14 I first contacted Sterling using their "Contact Us" page on April 01. So far I've not received a response. I left a second message on their "Contact Us" page today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Fogle Posted April 22 Author Share Posted April 22 (edited) Great news, I received a response from Sterling Customer Support. I've copied the response below: Quote This is a customer service enquiry submitted on https://sterlingaudio.net/contact-us/. Please review and respond to the customer as needed. Customer message and contact info: Email: XXX@XXXXX.XXX How can we help? I am interested in learning more about the Sterling Harmony H224 audio interface and the Windows driver package you provide. Question 1: What descriptive label will be displayed when choosing the H224 midi input and output drivers? Question 2: Are midi input and output ports also available through the interface's USB port? Question 3: You offer both WDM and ASIO audio interface drivers. Is the ASIO driver a true, standalone driver or is it a wrapper? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thank you for reaching out. We've forwarded your question to our product managers for further assistance. As soon as this information becomes available, you will be notified. Thank you for being patient. All the best, Sterling Customer Support sterlingaudio.net (888) 621-2154 Edited April 23 by Jim Fogle edited email address. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Fogle Posted April 28 Author Share Posted April 28 Below is the April 25, 2024 answer from Sterling Audio: I replied asking for clarification to the term, embedded ASIO driver, used in answer 3. Quote Question 1: What descriptive label will be displayed when choosing the H224 midi input and output drivers? Assuming you are using Windows 10 or 11, If the H224 is selected as the Input and Output device to the Operating System it will allow for MIDI in and out to be used with a DAW via its 5-pin DIN connectors. You should see the device label as “H224 MIDI”. Question 2: Are midi input and output ports also available through the interface's USB port? The H224 is not designed to support USB MIDI. MIDI connectivity is via its 5-pin DIN connectors on rear panel. Question 3: You offer both WDM and ASIO audio interface drivers. Is the ASIO driver a true, standalone driver or is it a wrapper?" For Windows 10 & 11 Operating Systems. The H224 uses an embedded ASIO driver. As long as the WDM driver is not selected for use in the Windows OS, audio will be processed via the ASIO driver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Fogle Posted May 8 Author Share Posted May 8 As mentioned above I asked for clarification about the meaning of Sterling Audio's reply that the hardware uses an "embedded" ASIO driver. Today I received the response below: Quote Hey James, Thank you for reaching out.The ASIO function is embedded in the Windows driver package. Let us know if you have any additional questions. All the best, Sterling Customer Support sterlingaudio.net I'm taking that to mean Sterling Audio created the Windows ASIO driver and it is included as part of their driver software. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vere Posted May 12 Share Posted May 12 (edited) Yes it looks that way. The driver package is just that. If the interface includes midi ports it will install both the midi and audio drivers as well as the control panel app. Some install a software mixer app which is also the control panel for you settings too. Edited May 12 by John Vere 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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