TTS-1 Works In Old Projects But Crashes New Ones.

[mdiemer]

I haven't been able to use TTS-1 in any projects since migrating to CbB. (I'm using the version right before the latest update). I had basically given up on it. Last night I loaded up some old projects from a CD I had them saved on. The TTS-1 instruments worked, although there were some crashes. But I was able to get them all working. Can't figure out why it loads and works on old projects, but if I try to introduce it into new ones, the project crashes. But if I can figure it out, with a little help from my friends, maybe I can start using it again. It's always good to have a decent general midi set. you never know when you might need it.

Thanks,

Michael

[abacab]

TTS-1 does not support 88.2 kHz sample rate, per Cakewalk documentation. What sample rate are you using in the new projects vs. old projects?

https://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=SONAR X3&language=3&help=Troubleshooting.26.html

[mdiemer]

I use the 44 sampling rate, which I believe is default? I don't change that. So that is not the problem. Old projects also using that. 

But now I wonder, should I use a different rate?  Would my music sound better?

[abacab]

If you are sharing your DAW audio hardware with Windows audio, you will have less issues if both are using the same sampling rate. This covers some problems posted by users not getting any Windows audio after exiting their DAW software. Some interfaces have been observed to not switch rates gracefully.

Audio interfaces can only support one rate at a time.

Volumes of opinions have already been written about sampling rates and what is best for digital audio, so I would recommend  to Google that topic.

I leave my system set at 44.1, and that sounds good enough for me. Higher sample rates create bigger audio files, so that is one consideration. If you are going to mix down to CD audio, your final master will be 44.1.

[Jim Fogle]

Chances are your older projects were created with a 32 bit program.

The Music Creator programs I started with are 32 bit and include a 32 bit version of TTS-1.

Sonar was available in both 32 and 64 bit versions.  The Sonar Command Center automatically downloaded whichever version matched your operating system.  If your operating system was 64 bit Command Center allowed you to download both 32 and 64 bit versions.  When you load both versions you also get 32 and 64 bit TTS-1.

[mdiemer]

Possible, Jim. Originally I started with Windows 98. When I moved to my next computer, it came with Vista 32, so I assumed that's all it was capable of. When I upgraded to Windows 7, I installed the 32 bit version, not realizing my system could actually handle 64 bit (I was still pretty stupid in those days). Eventually I figured out it could indeed handle 64, if I upgraded my memory. About 5 years ago I got my current rig. I have ported over all my projects from one machine to the other, so they all started as 32 bit versions. So it could be that the instances of TTS-1 are all 32 bit. And I am now attempting to load 32 bit versions on a 64 bit system . I will check into this, hopefully you are on to something here.

By the way, was there ever a TTS-2? Just wondering.

 

Edited October 10, 2019 by mdiemer

[Craig Anderton]

1 hour ago, mdiemer said:

By the way, was there ever a TTS-2? Just wondering.

No.

FWIW, I use the TTS-1 in both CbB and Studio One (with a DX wrapper). Maybe try a DX wrapper that fools CbB into thinking it's a VST? But don't give up - it can work in new projects, and still has some pretty effing cool sounds.

[Jim Fogle]

There never has been a TTS-2.

 My understanding is TTS-1 is a variation of an earlier Roland software sound module that Roland called HyperCanvas.  Roland built it as an OEM product for Cakewalk.  Both products replaced an even earlier software solution called Virtual Sound Canvas or VSC.  The TTS-1 was first released in 2004.

Roland currently has a competing retail product called Sound Canvas VA that sells for about $125 US.  Read more about it here:  https://www.roland.com/global/products/sound_canvas_va/

Roland also has a subscription model of the Sound Canvas VA.  It is located here:  https://www.rolandcloud.com/catalog/legendary/sound-canvas-va

Yamaha also released a software based midi sound module but I don't know much about it except it existed but is no longer available.

I suspect your TTS-1 files are corrupt.  I would delete all my existing TTS-1 files from the computer, reboot the computer to clear memory then get a fresh download of CbB using BandLab Assistant.  BandLab Assistant should see the files are missing and replace them.

The easiest way to find the files and delete them is to use Windows File Explorer to search your primary drive using the search term TTS-1.

[mdiemer]

4 hours ago, Craig Anderton said:

No.

FWIW, I use the TTS-1 in both CbB and Studio One (with a DX wrapper). Maybe try a DX wrapper that fools CbB into thinking it's a VST? But don't give up - it can work in new projects, and still has some pretty effing cool sounds.

It does have cool sounds, including some instruments I don't have, like a soprano sax. I have used low and high strings to good effect also.

[mdiemer]

Jim, that should, theoretically, work. I'll have to wait until I'm feeling either very bored or adventurous to try it. Although it seems safe enough. Nothing to lose, except upgrading to the most recent CbB is slightly risky. Past upgrades have been problematic at times for me.

I knew and loved the VSC, still have it installed on my old computer with Sonar Home Studio 6, I believe. The variety of sounds there is amazing. Including a Shanai, ancestor to the oboe. where else you gonna find that?

Edited October 11, 2019 by mdiemer

[mdiemer]

More info on this: I tried inserting a new instance of TTS into one of the older projects, where the existing TTS instances do work. first time it crashed CbB immediately. Second time I got it inserted, but it crashed when I tried loading an instrument. 

How do I tell if an instance is 32 or 64 bit? Also, is TTS only DXI, or is there a VST version? 

[abacab]

59 minutes ago, mdiemer said:

More info on this: I tried inserting a new instance of TTS into one of the older projects, where the existing TTS instances do work. first time it crashed CbB immediately. Second time I got it inserted, but it crashed when I tried loading an instrument. 

How do I tell if an instance is 32 or 64 bit? Also, is TTS only DXI, or is there a VST version? 

TTS-1 has always been a DXi only, available in 32 or 64-bit. Unless you use a VST wrapper, the only other host I know of that will load a native DXi is Reaper.

As far as what you have installed, you can always check whether it's installed in your 32-bit or 64-bit Cakewalk/Shared DXi folder.

 

Edited October 12, 2019 by abacab

[mdiemer]

Thanks abacab.

[Terry Kelley]

I am still fighting TTS-1. It crashes the instant it's expected to produce a sound. Something has changed but I can't nail it down. I need some input on how to logically troubleshoot it. I am just spinning my wheels at this point. I get the age-old C000000005 Window memory issue.

What I know:

1. Anything created before about July works. I have some tracks with 10 separate TTS-1's playing and they work fine. Don't ask why I did that, I just did. They work.

2. If I add TTS-1 to something already existing but didn't have it before, it crashes. I think there is a hint in this.

3. If I create a wholly new project, I can add as many as I want and they work.

4. I've checked that I am running the x64 versions. I am.

5. I've checked that my sample rate is withing the range acceptable to TTS. It is. I normally run 48,000. I checked that Windows, CcbB and my Presonus iTwo are set to that (Presonus defaults to the Windows setting.) They are.

6. I've verified the dll/dat files with a friends, and they are a perfect match.

7. I deleted the dll/dat, uninstalled CbB, reinstalled and get the same fail.

8. I switched interfaces to my Behringer and the Windows internal sound and it still crashes.

9. I submitted a request and dump file to support and got the reply 'We didn't write this so you are on your own.' However, CbB does bundle it so ...

To point 2 above:

I think there is a conflict with another sound module/VST, effect. I will take one of the trouble songs and start backing out plug-ins to see it. I know some of the Sonitus effects are unstable such as the reverb and delay. Move a control while it's playing and enjoy your speakers heading across the room.

If anyone has some troubleshooting logic I should try, I would love to hear it!

[davet]

I suffer crashes with TTS when I load it as a Simple Instrument Track. The fix was to load it in the Synth Rack View. The same goes for Roland Groove Synth and Dimension Pro.  And like you I have some old projects with TTS-1 and they work fine - because I loaded them in the Synth Rack like we used to in Sonar.

FWIW, I opened a support ticket about this, then closed it after I figured out how to fix TTS-1.

I should also note that Superior Drummer, Trilian and NI B4  load fine as Simple Instrument Tracks in the Track View and I informed support

about this.  And, the Simple Instrument Track insert used to work fine because I used it a lot. Something changed a few updates back.

Edited December 18, 2019 by davet

[Terry Kelley]

I will try this but I can load/insert the TTS, but when it has to play some notes, it crashes.

 

Edit: Nope, it crashes on the first note.

Edited December 18, 2019 by Terry Kelley

[davet]

That's exactly what happened when I loaded TTS as an Instrument Track.  It will load, the GUI appears as normal, I could poke around in it with a mouse. Soon as I hit it with a note from either of my Roland keyboards - it would blow up, kill Cakewalk dead.

Loaded from the Synth Rack, works perfect for me.

I would open a ticket with support (if you haven't already). Something got broken a while back and the developers need to look at this. 

 

[John Vere]

One way to test TTS-1 is to OPEN an midi file.

First you need to set Cakewalk to automatically open midi files with the TTS1-.

Go to Preferences/ Midi/ Devices and un check any output boxes.   

Now find any midi file and tell it to open with Cakewalk. I set this up in Windows. 

Cakewalk should open the midi file and TTS-1 and all the tracks ready to go. 

This will rule out any project specific issues. 

I have always opened midi files this way without issue.

And as said the developers were Roland and the synth has nothing to do with the Bandlab team. It's an old piece of software and basically unsupported. Just open it with the synth rack if that works. It is a hard one to replace for it's ease of use with GM files.  

Edited December 18, 2019 by John Vere

[Terry Kelley]

Loading from the synth rack still crashes on the first note. Since I can add it to a new empty project or play any of the previous projects that had it already I think it's a conflict with some other plug in. I am taking this "problem project" and slowly deleting plug-ins to see if one of them fixes TTS.

As for it being unsupported, I get that, but CbB does ship it with the program so it should work as it did at one time. I did submit a ticket and got told to pound sand (or I am overly exaggerating a paraphrase of a loose interpretation of what they really said.)

That said (pun intended), it could easily be an issue with some external evil force like a plug-in I've added recently.

I also appreciate all of the suggestions. Work around's are good but it would be nice to know what actually changed and fix that if possible. Or pound sand ...

Edited December 19, 2019 by Terry Kelley

[Terry Kelley]

On 12/18/2019 at 3:45 PM, John Vere said:

One way to test TTS-1 is to OPEN an midi file.

First you need to set Cakewalk to automatically open midi files with the TTS1-.

Go to Preferences/ Midi/ Devices and un check any output boxes.   

Now find any midi file and tell it to open with Cakewalk. I set this up in Windows. 

Cakewalk should open the midi file and TTS-1 and all the tracks ready to go. 

This will rule out any project specific issues. 

I have always opened midi files this way without issue.

And as said the developers were Roland and the synth has nothing to do with the Bandlab team. It's an old piece of software and basically unsupported. Just open it with the synth rack if that works. It is a hard one to replace for it's ease of use with GM files.  

Very interesting. I tried it and any pure midi files (.MID) load and play fine. I never knew Cakewalk would load TTS as a default synth like that although I'm sure it's mentioned 20 times in the manual and I never noticed it. Is there a setting where you can specify the default soft synth?

I am not sure what this tells me though. It's similar to creating a new project and adding the TTS. That works. Anything created in the past (more than 6 months) seems to open and play although I haven't opened every single one to try it.

Edit: On three files that will crash, removing ALL plug-ins and soft synths doesn't fix it. It still crashes on the first note from the TTS. If I redirect the midi to a different soft synth and don't have the TTS play anything, it doesn't crash.

Edited December 23, 2019 by Terry Kelley