Does Cakewalk/Sonar allow VSTs to send/receive System Exclusive Messages to external MIDI (Korg DW-8000 and FB-7999)?

[Peter Hintze]

Does Cakewalk/Sonar allow VSTs to send/receive MIDI CC and System Exclusive Messages?

I tried 2 hours to set Cakewalk MIDI/IN outputs, Syes Echoes, etc.., but to no avail..

 

My use case is the following:

I have a 80s hardware  synth Korg DW-8000 which responds to sysex messages .

Then there is a VST called FB-7999 which emulates the Korg DW-8000 but it also can be used as Sysex Librarian and also realtime Sysex sender to the Hardware (see pic below). So i want this VST "FB-7999" to send its sysex messages when i move its sliders (an send sysex patches) and also receive sysex from the Korg DW-8000 (e.g. to import sysex patches).

Reaper - which i just installed to test it out and normally don't use - can do it via simply defining a MIDI output for the same VST.

Can Cakewalk do it (which i use since 1997)?

 

Thanks,

Peter

 

 

ps. i found a similar question but not answer here from 2011: http://forum.cakewalk.com/Sonar-VSt-SendReceive-System-Exclusive-Messages-m2214469.aspx

 

 

 

 

Edited January 18 by Peter Hintze

[user 905133]

21 hours ago, Peter Hintze said:

Does Cakewalk/Sonar allow VSTs to send/receive MIDI CC and System Exclusive Messages?

As for CCs, I have had Voltage Modular send CCs to VST Instruments hosted in CbB.

I have never tried to use Sysex commands the way you describe. I have used Cakewalk/Sonar to capture sysex banks (bulk data presets) from hardware. Also used to use Sysex commands to change parameter settings mainly on Roland gear (MT-32, CM-64, M-GS64, RA-30) and E-Mu gear (Proteus, P2K line). I have done sysex bulk data dumps to and from my Casio VZ-8m for sure; possibly a Korg EX-800 .

I have a few software synths that can send and receive sysex.  I remember when I got the VirtualCZ I sent it some sysex dumps.  I would have loaded the data from sysex dumps (syx files) into Cakewalk or MIDI-OX.

Quote

 So i want this VST "FB-7999" to send its sysex messages when i move its sliders (an send sysex patches) and also receive sysex from the Korg DW-8000 (e.g. to import sysex patches).

Correct me if I am wrong--you want to do two different tasks (1) bulk data storage and retrieval and (2) realtime parameter control.  

I have been told that Cakewalk/SONAR CbB cannot receive MIDI Time Code data (bytes that consist of or start with 0xFn [hex]) and echo that out.  Based on that (since sysex commands start with 0xF0 and terminate with 0xF7) I suspect what you want to do with hardware wouldn't work.    

I have the Fury-800 and possibly the FB-7999.  If you post some valid sysex bulk data dumps, I can test them. 

As for real time control of soft synths from the hardware (assuming they have the ability to send sysex commands on the fly when you use the controls) or vice versa, I doubt CbB can do that.

Addendum:  

21 hours ago, Peter Hintze said:

So i want this VST "FB-7999" to send its sysex messages when i move its sliders  . . . .

Quote

If you want to send a SysEx command for any parameter change within the FB-7999 user interface you have to check the menu entry “Send Parameter Change SysEx” in the sub-menu “Global MIDI Settings…” of the Options Menu (again the SysEx format follows the current DW mode). This way you can use FB-7999 as a software editor for your DW hardware

After installing the FB-7999 and setting it up to send sysex from its UI parameter changes, I don't see any way for CbB to echo sysex commands in realtime to hardware. 

Edited January 18 by User 905133
Downloaded/Installed Fury-800 & FB-7999 on current Audio PC

[John Vere]

Funny.  I used to have that synth bought it for $10 at a garage sale. Sold it for $25 a few year ago.
 I didn’t know there was a VST for the DW. I’ll have grab that.
I have the Fury 800 VST which seems to be a good emulation of the Korg Poly 800 which was my first synth 1884? I think I paid $1,200 for it and it died long time ago. So I was pretty happy to get it back for free. 
To answer your question I’ve never figured out how to set up sys exec messages. Seems pretty advanced stuff. But I’m pretty sure if if works in Reaper it should work with Cakewalk. We have a few forum members who know this stuff better than me for sure. 
The question is? if the VST instrument sounds the same why not just use that? 
 

[Peter Hintze]

4 hours ago, John Vere said:

To answer your question I’ve never figured out how to set up sys exec messages. Seems pretty advanced stuff. But I’m pretty sure if if works in Reaper it should work with Cakewalk. We have a few forum members who know this stuff better than me for sure. 
The question is? if the VST instrument sounds the same why not just use that? 
 

who could know such stuff?

The VST is good! But it does not sound the same: It does not have the exact same waveforms, not the same envelopes and especially not the same analog filter ..

  

[Starship Krupa]

This is kind of "over my head," but the first question I have to ask is whether you've enabled MIDI Out on the VST.

I know that Cakewalk is capable of sending MIDI back and forth in real time to such external devices as control surfaces, but have never tried exactly what you are trying to do.

Given how much of Cakewalk's underlying code goes back to the pre-VSTi days when making music with a computer meant hooking it up to external synths, my hunch is that it should be able to do it.

Have you checked in the Cakewalk Reference Guide?

[user 905133]

[post removed; updated previous post]

Edited January 18 by User 905133

[Peter Hintze]

Thank you all for responding and taking the time!

 

10 hours ago, Starship Krupa said:

1. This is kind of "over my head," but the first question I have to ask is whether you've enabled MIDI Out on the VST.

2.  know that Cakewalk is capable of sending MIDI back and forth in real time to such external devices as control surfaces, but have never tried exactly what you are trying to do. Given how much of Cakewalk's underlying code goes back to the pre-VSTi days when making music with a computer meant hooking it up to external synths, my hunch is that it should be able to do it.

3. Have you checked in the Cakewalk Reference Guide?

1. yes

2. i would have thought so too

3. yes, but i have not found anything other than what can be seen in the options and the GUI MIDI echo settings

6 hours ago, User 905133 said:

1. Correct me if I am wrong--you want to do two different tasks (1) bulk data storage and retrieval and (2) realtime parameter control.  

2. I have been told that Cakewalk/SONAR CbB cannot receive MIDI Time Code data (bytes that consist of or start with 0xFn [hex]) and echo that out.  Based on that (since sysex commands start with 0xF0 and terminate with 0xF7) I suspect what you want to do with hardware wouldn't work.    

3. I have the Fury-800 and possibly the FB-7999.  If you post some valid sysex bulk data dumps, I can test them. 

4. As for real time control of soft synths from the hardware (assuming they have the ability to send sysex commands on the fly when you use the controls) or vice versa, I doubt CbB can do that.

5. Addendum:  After installing the FB-7999 and setting it up to send sysex from its UI parameter changes, I don't see any way for CbB to echo sysex commands in realtime to hardware. 

1. yes and yes

2.  OK

3. You still want some DW-8000 patch sysex even thought you tried it yourself now according to 5.?

4. OK

5. Thanks for testing!! One would think it is a - well not basic - but necessary MIDI functionaliy to make a VST listen to sysex from a MIDI IN or sending sysex to a MIDI OUT. It seems strange that this has never come up  in the last 30 years with Cakewalk. Especially with its long history..

Reaper can do this with an easy setup.. Do you know if other DAW have this sysex capability?

 

Peter

Edited January 18 by Peter Hintze

[msmcleod]

I'm almost certain sysex isn't supported for VST's in CbB - I know it doesn't support receiving it, so it's doubtful it'll support sending it either.

[Promidi]

I think sysex is only routed to and from hardware MIDI ports.

Any sysex data encountered in a MIDI track, even if the MIDI track itself is routed to VSTis, will go to your first available hardware MIDI port, if exists.  I am not sure what happens if you do not have any available hardware MIDI ports (probably goes nowhere).

I tried this, and my hardware MIDI port flashed its output LED when ever sysex data was encountered in the track.

With sysex banks, you actually specify the hardware MIDI ports on the Sysex View window.