Change tempo proportionally

[Daniele Scanziani]

I've been searching literally for years a way to accomplish this task, which seems to be a basic one for a sequencer.

I'd like to change ALL tempos in a song in a proportional way . A sort of an "Interpolate tempo" tool. I know I can use the "Fit to time" option but it is a very poor solution which require a lot of "trial and error" process.

Is there  in the new Cakewalk by Bandlab something more useful? I mean: a tool, a CAL, a way of dragging the tempo line, whatever?

[arlen2133]

Daniele,

there is a article on this in the Sonar Documentation..

 

Sonar Doc (Tempo)

 

Hope this helps..

[Daniele Scanziani]

Thank you for your reply, but I don't find in the article any reference about my issue. What I need is a way to change all tempos in a song proportionally, with a single action. 

[David Baay]

There is no new feature to help with this. Below is a workaround I've posted before. It's awkward because you have to work in SMPTE time. Also you should avoid trying to scale only part of the project; IIRC, there are issues with the way Cakewalk handles that.
 
1. Enable autostretch (a.k.a. Clip Follows Project) on any audio clips.
2. Select a MIDI or audio clip that runs the length of the project  (bounce/record one if necessary).  
3. Go to Process > Fit to Time.  
4. Convert the current Thru time to total frames (usually 30 frames/sec).  
5. Divide that by the desired factor (e.g. 1.10 to get a 10% increase, 0.90 for a 10% decease).  
6. Round and convert that new value to minutes:seconds:frames.  
7. Enter that as the new Thru, and select Modify by Changing: Tempo Map.  
8. Click OK. 

 

[dilletant]

I miss "scale tempo" feature terribly. Something like "add/subtract or multiply/divide all tempo changes by xx". Or better yet, "go to X bpm to Y bpm", affecting all tempos accordingly. For example, let's say I have a song with steady tempo but with little ritenutos and fermatas here and there. All I need to do is adjust the main tempo by couple of BPM with all fluctuations following along. The only way to do it is workaround from previous post, but still with approximate results.

[Kalle Rantaaho]

So, is it not possible in Tempo view to move the whole edited  tempo curve with all the adjustments up or down? I've never needed to do it, but I've always thought that's the way if necessary.

[David Baay]

No, you can only change one point at a time (by clicking, not by dragging), and even if you could drag them all together,  simply offsetting them all by the same number of BPM would not maintain the proportionality between different tempos. It has to be a percentage change.

Edited September 27, 2019 by David Baay

[Daniele Scanziani]

I always tought the lack of this simple feature was a big defect of a great software like Sonar. I would be possible to make a feature request? Or asking to the gurus in this forum to think for a CAL? 

[arlen2133]

I was able to use the draw (line) setting on the smart tool in the tempo view and draw a very precise tempo increase.  

Not sure if this helps anyone, but I got it straight from the documentation:

To steadily increase or decrease the tempo in the Tempo view

1.Enable Groove Clip Looping on any audio clips that you want to follow the tempo changes. Do this by selecting one or more clips, right-clicking a selected clip, and choosing Groove > Clip Looping from the pop-up menu. Each clip that has Groove Clip Looping enabled has beveled edges instead of sharp corners. The same command disables Groove Clip Looping on any selected clip that has Groove Clip Looping enabled.

2.Select the Line tool  in the Control Bar.

3.Drag a line in the graph from the starting time and tempo to the ending time and tempo.

SONAR introduces a linear series of tempo changes.

[James Argo]

It has been discussed since Cakewalk Pro Audio era in many forums. I could be wrong but from my understanding, unlike any other MIDI envelopes in Cakewalk (like MIDI CC), Tempo is (and will be) tightly related to many other factors like Timing Source, Time code, SMPTE, MTC sync, etc. That's why it is not that easy to turn Tempo into "node editable" envelope like any other MIDI envelopes. The idea looks simple from user perspective, but I believe modifying how Cakewalk deals with tempo requires really deep analysis and calculation considering many other factors mentioned rather than just adding a feature to offset the number. 

I love the idea tho, and I hope Cakewalk will have this feature sometime.

Edited September 27, 2019 by James Argo

[Jon L. Jacobi]

Tempo is a little different than other data in that changes the timing delta between note onsets and other data, but even very fine tempo changes shouldn’t bog playback down. And limited human perception renders pointless the need for very fine changes.

Why proportionally?

[Promidi]

7 hours ago, Daniele Scanziani said:

Or asking to the gurus in this forum to think for a CAL? 

Sadly, it's not possible to manipulate tempo change events via CAL

You can't even use the EditFitToTime40 or EditFitToTime commands to change the tempo via CAL

This is because with both of these commands, In SONAR this function has a bug. It returns the message ‘invalid value’.

Edited September 28, 2019 by Promidi
Accidently pressed enter

[David Baay]

24 minutes ago, Jon L. Jacobi said:

Why proportionally?

Suppose, as a simple example, you have a piece that's 100 bpm on the verses and jumps to 110 (110% of the verse tempo) on the choruses. Later you decide the whole thing is dragging, and you want to start at 120. In order to have the same relative increase in tempo on the choruses, you need to go to 110% of 120 = 132 bpm.

If you don't maintain that proportionality, it won't sound right. This gets even more critical when you have a really rubato piece that's constantly changing tempo.

As far the number of tempos goes, to accurately reproduce a tempo change across several notes that isn't linear, you need one change per note interval - no more and no less.

Edited September 28, 2019 by David Baay

[David Baay]

An extreme example to illustrate. Tempos doubled by the procedure outlined in my first post:

Original

Doubled

[Blogospherianman]

Yes it’s possible and not that hard.  I’ll post the recipe when I get home. I do this regularly.

[Blogospherianman]

This is easily accomplished using Fit to Time from the Process Menu.

I like to start with the tempo map view opened to verify the changes or to select specific range of times.

Select ALL tracks.  There must be midi or audio data in the selected area. ( you can put dummy data here if needed) (Also, after Selecting All Tracks, if you wish to just proportionally change only certain measures, you can use the time range in the track view or tempo view to select say measure 2 to 12 for eg. )

Go to Process, Fit to Time and Select Modify by changing Tempo map.

For faster tempo, enter an earlier New Thru Time.  For Slower tempos, enter a later New Thru Time. (for example if you have a 3 minute selection that you want 10% faster proportionally (while keeping your tempo map of course),  3 minutes = 180 secs.  10% faster would end at 90% of the original Thru Time.  So, 180 x 0.90 = 162 secs OR 2 min and 42 secs.  So a New Thru Time of 2'42" would proportionally increase your Map by 10% for a 3 minute song.

I do this often and get great results!

I'll leave a GIF of doing this procedure over a specific range.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/wt4y8xu1mdrcsq8/Speed up tempo map maintaing tempo proportions.gif?dl=0

Hope that helps!

✌️

[jf]

Hey  Blogospherianman  UR Genius.

[chris.r]

something like Transform Tool for tempo view could be handy at times

[Justin Rayna]

So, actually in the most recent Cakewalk by BandLab you CAN very easily change all tempos simultaneously, but as mentioned it won't be proportional.

1) use the "select" tool to grab all your tempo nodes: (the small white dot will turn darker grey and incur a bigger circle around it, indicating it was selected.

2) Use the "move" tool and click and hold on one of the selected nodes. Then simply push your mouse up or down, and all the selected nodes will move together.

Additionally, you can select whether you want to snap the tempo nodes to whole values or not by hovering over the center of a node and right clicking.

 

Happy Music Making!

 

[John Vere]

When I saw the title and then the date of the OP I right away thought- Oh I bet the new tempo track will do this.